RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

U.S. needs scientific boost



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Published: September 15, 2008

Two things happened earlier in the month that, taken together, clearly spell out why America is doomed if we don't correct our course as a society.

In Switzerland on Sept. 10, an international group of scientists powered up the largest physics experiment in history, the Large Hadron Collider, at CERN (the European Organization for Nuclear Research, best known by its French initials).

A week earlier, in Minneapolis, Minn., the GOP celebrated the nomination of a candidate for vice president who not only doesn't believe in basic science, she celebrates the fact. It is in fact part of her charm, for the party's core right-wing base.

It follows two terms for a president who publicly rejects signs of intelligence as "elitism." Bizarrely, that's one of the talking points in the 2008 presidential campaign from many of the same people who blame America's academic shortcomings on teachers' unions and public schools.

Completion of the Large Hadron Collider signaled not only the first attempt to replicate the conditions in the seconds immediately after the Big Bang at the start of the universe, but a significant step in America abandoning its role as the preeminent scientific community in the world.

CERN and the U.S. military are the agencies most responsible for the Internet, but it would have happened without any input from us. It's a good example of how things are funded differently here and elsewhere. CERN is designed and funded for "pure" research, whereas scientific funding in the U.S. is increasingly dependent upon expectations of direct military and/or economic benefit.

Why should we spend money helping the world's physics community understand how the universe began billions of years ago when millions of voters believe it sprang up miraculously some 5,000 years ago, based on a literal reading of the "begats" in the Old Testament?

It is profoundly important in a free society to respect an individual's belief in the Bible; it just happens to be a lousy cornerstone for formulating a science program.

Increasingly, our on-again, off-again support for long-term commitments is pushing American involvement in major scientific efforts to one side. Why should Europe, China, Japan or India choose us as a partner when they know we're unlikely to see a 10- or 20-year project through?

Under President Bush, the United States famously refused to honor international treaty obligations including the Kyoto Protocol; less notoriously but equally seriously, we also pulled out of another major scientific project, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, following a budget dust-up between the administration and Congress.

According to a Christian Science Monitor article on the Large Hadron Collider quoting David Goldston, a visiting lecturer at Harvard University who specializes in science policy, "The U.S. has had the lead in facilities for a long time; now it won't." He pointed out that America's top particle accelerators, at Stanford and the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Ill., are either closed or closing.

At no time in history has humanity been more reliant on scientific knowledge. Virtually everything we touch is the result of human engineering, from safe drinking water to the light switch on the wall to most of our foods. Even organic foods are the result of generations of farmers selectively breeding and planting to improve their output. The biological mechanism that allows generational improvement of crops to work is evolution, a concept which over half the American public does not believe in, including Sarah Palin.

The light of science switched on in Switzerland this month; increasingly that light is going out in America.








READER COMMENTS


More banal comments from people who haven't studied the Bible. They probably cant read Greek, nor Hebrew (now that both are no longer required to get into college).
According to the Bible, the Bible is a book of Knowledge, God's Knowledge to man, man's "daily bread" as-it were. No one is born believing in this knowledge; belief in this knowledge of God, his Word, is a gift from God according to this same book of knowledge: His word. As knowledge from God, just reading it will not give you understanding. You must dig and search for this knowledge as you would for hidden treasure (Proverbs of Solomon). Just because you know what something says or reads, it doesn't logically follow that you know what it means or understand what the author is saying.
The bible is a book of logical propositions. Whether you accept and understand these propositions of God is another matter.
Blind leaders of the blind; both will fall in the pit.
-- Posted by William Witt on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 9:24 pm EST

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It is sad to read an article by someone decrying ignorance in science who does not understand the history of science. Many of the great scientists, such as Isaac Newton, believed that God created the world, and because He did then the world is governed by logical and orderly laws, making scientific exploration possible. Every scientist practicing any type of science relies on the unchanging laws that God placed in nature. Haphazard changes over billions of years do not give us solid laws and the ability to make repeatable experiments today. The belief in evolution has never increased our ability in scientific exploration, but rather has hurt it and hurt people, as seen over and over again through the years. Evolutionary scientists thought that the aborigines of Australia were less than human when first discovered, a little lower on the evolutionary climb upward, and therefore put them in zoos, and did experiments on them, killing thousands. Many other examples can be found through sites such as answersingenesis.org. People like this author do not even allow a discussion in our public schools of the real basis for our greatest scientific discoveries: In the beginning, God created.

Karl Engle
Chicago
-- Posted by Karl Engle on Sun, Sep 28, 2008, 3:26 pm EST

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"Why should we spend money helping the world's physics community understand how the universe began billions of years ago when millions of voters believe it sprang up miraculously some 5,000 years ago, based on a literal reading of the "begats" in the Old Testament?"

That is a great question. We must think it seems much more reasonable to spend the equivalent of $7Billion dollars on the work of people who think it sprang up out of total and absolute NOTHING by random chance billions of years ago. That makes sense because we see all around us other evidences of things happening with out a cause. Matter just randomly begins to exist all the time.

Please explain to me how that is science? It is not. It is Naturalism. Naturalism is not a science but a philosophy bordering on a religion. It is based on un-provable assumptions about the past and atheistic presuppositions that say there is no God and therefore He is not there to create and manipulate nature. The miraculous simply doesn't happen. What they have done is taken science where it was never meant to go. The first comment is quite correct. True science based in observations of phenomena in the present, has not, can not and never will prove things like the Big Bang theory, or nothing-to-molecules-to-man evolution. Rather than making such people objective scientific observers their presuppositions have made them intolerant and illogical.
-- Posted by James Vieceli on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, 7:06 am EST

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Freehold states that Creationism would take five minutes to refute. I am afraid he or she does not know of what they talk. The religion of Humanistic Scientism has been around for approximately two hundred years and for the last fifty odd decades has been stae funded and had all other competitors in the market place censured out by the twisting of the farsighted founding fathers of AMERICA.

Freehold also seems like she/he has not learnt or been forced to learn proper science as he/she fails to differentiate between operational science and origins science. The high preist of Evolution have failed in their bit to kill off God because this is illogical tne created being cannot kill off the creator nor the computer, I will be Back, kill off the human. Thats why Swargenser new role as terminator( civil rights, babies, natural law.) is far more evil and depraved and unhuman than the robot he portrayed. The fact is evolution arandom chance of atoms and chemicals banging together to come up with us is as implausible as the frog turning into a handsome prince.

one day Freehold you and all like you will stand before the creator and you will tell Him face to face that He could not have done it the way He said in His word the Bible and He will laugh in your face and point you to Pastuer, and the founders of the Sciences the majority of the science and sau These saw My invisible attributes in My Creation, why did not you.
God help you all
-- Posted by James O'Donnell on Mon, Sep 22, 2008, 12:44 am EST

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It must depend upon whose science is being "gored"...

Palin says she thinks creationism should be discussed ... fine. Compare it to evolution, it should take about 5 minutes to refute it. But she hasn't shown a stubborn insistance that it is correct ... merely that she holds similar foolish beliefs as a large swath of fellow Americans who have been taught to swallow a whole load of religious foolishness as fact. (Like "Peace at any price." )

Like most Americans, she's probably never been forced to really learn any science. Sort of like the RH editorial staff. At least she hasn't shown any tendency to shove it down everyone elses throats.

But of course, the "science" behind anthropogenic global warming, while not quite as shaky as creationism, has some similar problems that require only someone with a great deal of "faith" to believe in it, and with rather weak scientific skills (or a political agenda).

Can you imagine trying to build the LHC in Vermont? We can't even get the citizenry to approve a couple of windmills! Or allow OMYA to run a few more trucks on Rt. 7. Or allow McD's to paint their building the color they want. Or put in a gas pipeline from the south.

A tiny wooden cooling tower collapses, and the leftist masses want to shut down an entire nuclear power facility.

The Herald proclaims it wants higher taxes on the higher income tax brackets ... which would tend to be people who invested a significant portion of their educational lives learning useful skills, such as to become engineers and scientists.

And now suddenly they should work extra hard to give the US a scientific boost? To what end? So they can have more of their effort and income confiscated for someone elses political agenda? So they can receive more criticism from the do-nothings? As Ann Rand so aptly described the situation of those who carry society's demands, someday when society screams for more, Atlas will just shrug.

Vermont leftism is quintissential anti-science. And the Rutland Herald has led the way, with a 15th century science to match any of Palin's misconceptions.
-- Posted by Freehold-06 on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, 5:52 pm EST

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Once again, Liberal Editors across this country are trying to advance one of their favorite doctrines, "America is doomed," if we as a society don't correct our current course (whatever that means?). So, what current topic is the mainstream, liberal media using to help enlighten those they believe to be uneducated?

Today's Times Argus Editorial, now, claims that science is coming to a close in America (while purposely withholding a well-known fact that America, for generations, continues to open our doors to some of the best and the brightest minds in the world).

In an effort to bolster a questionable defense of their position these same Editors routinely omit information which sheds unfavorable light on their very argument. No better example of this can be found with the off-hand comment, "Under President Bush, the United States famously refused to honor international treaty obligations including the Kyoto Protocol."

Today's Editor intentionally neglect to include the most obvious fact that during BOTH of Bill Clinton's administrations that these administrations were just as guilty as the Bush administrations by, "famously refusing to honor international treaty obligations including the Kyoto Protocol." That's media bias at its ugliest.

Equally damning to this very leftist, doom and gloom argument is the well known fact that it was Democrat President, Bill Clinton, who held the presidency during March 1, 2000 when the United States banned further participation with ITER (International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor) participants. Now, was this ommission simply a big "Ooops(!)" on the part of the Editor, or was this just another in a long line of intentional ommissions intended to sway the public readership against Republicans? I'll leave that for you to determine.

It is often said that our very Liberal, Mainstream Media often posts facts as "truth." Routinely leaving it up to the general readership to dig out the real truth of their stated or printed position(s) as they attempt to sway public opinion. Again, oftentimes making connections with information *they* decide is the "truth." What do I mean? Well, read the following example, and you will begin to understand the Liberal Media's determination to connect statements of "facts" which have nothing to do with the real truth. Huh?

"Hinkley shot President Reagan, and President Reagan died." While BOTH comments are "true," one has to realize that neither are even remotely connected with the other. Yes, John Hinkley shot President Reagan, and yes, President Reagan is, now, dead. However, when an Editor COMBINES these two facts as one statement, then, the resultant statement becomes quite false. Such is the case with several statements found within today's Editorial.

Coversely, this Editor's connect-the-dots comment, above, "Increasingly, our on-again, off-again support for long-term commitments is pushing American involvement in major scientific efforts to one side. Why should Europe, China, Japan or India choose us as a partner when they know we're unlikely to see a 10- or 20-year project through," is, yet, another, terribly misleading statement - followed by a question - wrought with unbelievable ommissions of known facts.

Tom Boyce
Barre, VT
-- Posted by Tom Boyce on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, 2:25 pm EST

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When you say "It is profoundly important in a free society to respect an individual's belief in the Bible," just after mocking those who take that same book literally, it makes me wonder what you mean by "belief." In normal conversation, if I say "I believe you" that means "I believe you literally," not "That was a wonderful poetic allusion." One does not "believe" beautiful poetry; one merely appreciates the beauty of it. So would the accurate way to put what you mean that we should respect those who have appreciation of the Bible, but not necessarily those believe every last literal word? Or, if we should respect the people despite the problems such literal belief leads to, may we at least, in the name of a free society, disrespect the belief?

Literal believers in the Bible are, demonstrably, one of the greatest threats to our free society. Your editorial well-illustrates one way in which that's true.
-- Posted by Whit Blauvelt on Mon, Sep 15, 2008, 8:43 am EST

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