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Bush bashing days must end



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Published: June 10, 2009

For many years I have enjoyed observing American politics. The first presidential election I was interested in as a youngster was the Eisenhower-Stevenson contest in 1952.

Even though my grandfather told me once when I was just a wee lad, "Charles, let me give you some important advice. Always vote for the party to keep the party strong," I have strayed from his advice and voted for Republicans, Democrats and independents.

This last fall I voted with those 60 million who did not vote for Obama. This figure represents about 46 percent of those who voted. Now we in the minority are watching with awe as our country's basic approach to problem-solving is being radically changed to the far left. This president believes strongly that the federal government, not the individual, is the key to solving our problems. We shall soon see if he is correct.

Another significant departure from past practice I have observed is the continual blame this president lays on previous administrations. This is unprecedented. At some point this president has got to assume responsibility for the results of his actions.

Hopefully, our citizens who back him will also begin to realize that their Bush bashing days need to terminate and they will begin to sing the praises of our president's achievements once he accomplishes something.

CHUCK McCUIN

Pittsford








READER COMMENTS


"President Kennedy got us into Vietnam on a large scale."

While reading this thread is highly entertaining, most of these "facts" you are posting seem to be mostly conjecture and speculation.
-- Posted by Lives in Colorado on Tue, Jun 23, 2009, 12:16 am EST

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Maybe you should check your facts before making declarations, or maybe you know and just want to lay the blame at Bush's feet, but the CRA act requires that all banks that receive FDIC insurance make loans available to low income people in the towns they are commisioned to do business in. Depository banks were just one of the regulation arms that were responsible to check to ensure the banks were adhering to CRA regulations. Either you're unaware of your facts or you just want to make republicans look bad when in truth it started in the Clinton administration, and I am a fan of Bill Clinton. The next couple years are going to be very interesting to watch in both Vermont and at the national level to see how you liberals try to pay for all your social progams. I may even quit work and go on the gravy train myself, after all why work when someone is willing to give you everything.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 7:16 pm EST

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Oh and by the way exVTnone, I pay my fair share of taxes too. Don't make unfounded assumptions. Some people think patriotism goes beyond shooting your mouth off!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 6:44 pm EST

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xVtnone...not only were the brokers and institutions making the loans not subject to the CRA, but the banks you refer to that bought the notes and repackaged them into investment bonds, were also not depository banks. Your facts a very confused...there are some great resources at PlanetMoney.org that might help you understand all this better.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Mon, Jun 22, 2009, 6:40 pm EST

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By the way CF, Once again you are in error. the military DID NOT "hate" President Bush Sr. As a matter of fact, they liked Bush Sr. by a great margin. The military knew that it was the democratic controlled congress who stopped us from "finishing the job" during the first gulf war.
The military, by a great margin, disliked Clinton. Like you, Clinton had no respect whatsoever for any military person.
You are also incorrect yet again about your view of military personnel. There are very few military persons who "like and want war". You are assuming in your mind that soldiers, sailors, and Marines like to get shot at? You are twisted. Not all military personnel are "militants" either. You are just another twisted liberal spewing garbage.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 5:58 pm EST

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You're right Juliet, how could I be so unfeeling to think that people should take responsibility for their own actions. After all just because some single mother making $60,000 a year took out a loan to buy a $600,000 house doesn't mean it was her fault, she was surely tricked by some fast talking marriage broker. I too had a variable interest loan but when they went too high I refinanced into a fixed interest loan and had no problem because I wasn't idiotic enough to borrow way more then I could possibly afford to pay back. You say the people who made the loans were not under regulation but there was no one twisting the fools arms who took out the loans. The mortgage brokers were under regulation yet the falsified income documents and any other thing they had to to qualify people for loans, why haven't any of them been punished? The CRA was a strong contributing factor to the collapse of the housing market, greed and stupidity did the rest. The banks that bought up the bad loans were under regulation but that did not stop what happened. Don't try to convince me that wealth equality is a right, this country was built by people who worked hard to better their position in life, it will be destroyed by people like you who want to give it away to anyone to lazy or dumb to make it themselves. But then it's my money you're trying to give away, not your own.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 5:52 pm EST

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C F "reality", You are correct of one thing. we can't stereotype anyone from either the democrat party or from the republican party.
On the country though, you are misinformed. You are one liberal who is in denial of the damage to our country caused by the liberal party. In January of 2007, the liberals took over Congress. They promised that they'd take us in a "new direction". Before they took over, we had a booming economy and low unemployment rates. Our downward slide started right after they took control. tyhat is a fact.
You think you are in the uppercrust of highly educated people, but you fail to recall events on a factual basis. You are in serious denial of wars and who got us into them. President Kennedy got us into Vietnam on a large scale. He was a liberal democrat. President Johnson escalated the Vietnam war. Between thos two liberals democrats, we lost over 56,000 American lives. It was a republican who got us out of Vietnam and prevented more loss of life.
Nixon did lie, and he was getting impeached. He was man enough to accept his fate and instead of dragging things out and wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal process fees, he resigned in 1974.
Clinton on the other hand, lied. He lied just as bad as Nixon. He was a coward. He was impeached, and was too much of a lowlife to care about the will of the people. He did not care about the hundreds of thousands of dollars it cost taxpayers in legal process, etc. He was impeached but refused to get his disgusting self out of the whitehouse.
Don't even try to tell me about your wonderous liberal party. I know well what the definition of the word "liberal" is. In it's true meaning, it's a wonderful word. The liberal party however twisted the true meaning into something very warped.
Your feeble mind thinks that everyione who respects the military and the soldiers is a militant. You have no respect whatsoever for those who defend your rights of free speech. You also have no respect for law enforcement officers. Your remarks have made that clear. Most liberals would like the total absense of the military and police forces. They have a dillusion that if they give drug dealers, criminals, and enemies of the US a hug, that everything will be ok. Liberals think that they can tax our nation into prosperity. Liberals love to penalize the workers and reward the parasites of society.
I will ignore you C F, for talking with you is like trying to teach an old enema bag to recite Shakespeare.
In my mind, are there good liberals?? Yes indeed there are. I know of a doctor who has very liberal political beliefs. He is a great doctor. He volunteers time at the Rutland
Free Clinic. ( I believe you know him Juliet )
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 5:46 pm EST

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Oh poor AS, Zero and Ex, you have hurt feelings. You have all said the most reprehensible things about people you call "liberals" but take offense when someone says you are "misinformed."

Please note my EMT friend, that if the reason for the ambulance was not justified, the individual, not MediCARE WILL BE BILLED FOR THAT SERVICE! But you are correct, MediCARE will only pay for an ambulance. Remember that all on MediCARE are over 65 or certified disabled. If they were just one dollar under the income shelf and qualified for MediCAID coverage, their transportation can be paid for at a tenth the expense.

The problem is the policy, not the old and sick folks who can't get to the doctors. Change the Medicare policy to pay for non-emergency transportation to save money. Duh!

What I don't understand is the self-hatred among this group. You argue against policies that have actually been of benefit to you and your families like the CRA, by only delving a half-inch into the story and trying to twist the truth with out of context quotes you arrive at the wrong conclusions. Even the Rubin quote, while possibly accurate, is designed to mislead by an individual who is only partially informed and wants to mislead. Rather like Fox News. But, I shall state again, the CRA was NOT THE CAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS. THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THOSE LOANS WERE NOT UNDER CRA REGULATION.
Maybe you don't want to accept that because you are all rich white guys who worked on Wall Street and have been forced to pitch tents or live in trailers in Rutland County?
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 12:59 pm EST

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I can see your point these poor people were not responsible for their own actions in taking out loans they had no chance of making payments on. I'm sure they were all tricked into thinking they could flip the house whenever they needed to for a huge profit. In todays world everyone has an excuse for why the things they do aren't their responsibility. I had a variable loan too but wasn't in over my head and had no problem in securing a fixed interest loan when the varialble rate became too high. No it didn't make any sense giving a single mother making 60K per year a loan for a $600,000 house and no I don't feel sorry that she lost the house because she should have known she couldn't afford it. The problem started long before 2007 whether you want to admit it or not and people should be responsible for their own actions. This country was built on giving a person a chance to work to make a better life for themselves, it will destroyed by people like you who want to give it to people to lazy or smart enough to earn it themselves.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 11:19 am EST

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Juliet: After commenting on my thoughts on how the financial crisis developed, your reaction is to profile my employement. You are wrong, I do not work for the insurance industry. In fact, I am self-employed with no insurance coverage through my business. All I face are higher and higher taxes both on any income that I may have and prohibitive payroll taxes.

As for the efficiency of medicare, let me give you a real life example of how well this system works. I was a volunteer EMT for 7 years, covering over 1000 calls. You do not know how many times we responded to a 911 call for "not feeling well" to find a patient waiting at the door with bags packed for a ride to the hospital. When I asked if they had another way to get to the hospital, the answer was, "yes, but medicare will pay for the ambulance call." Sorry, but this is not efficiency - and the example is REAL and was repeated numerous times.

Please do me and the others that are offering constructive ideas on this site a favor - respond to ideas you differ with, but stop profiling, labeling, and bashing us with personal attacks.
-- Posted by Allen Seiple on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 10:02 am EST

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Juliet

If what you are saying is true then maybe you should read the first sentence or tow of this document, dated in 1993.

Spend some time and research the changes made in 1994 and 1995 and who was behind those changes and why. Chris Dodd's name may pop up several times and if you want som other juicy tidbit, Barney Frank was sleeping (literally) with a Fannie Mae CEO for many years during that time.

http://clinton6.nara.gov/1993/12/1993-12-08-briefing-by-bentsen-and-rubin.text.html

"For Immediate Release December 8, 1993

PRESS BRIEFING
BY
SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY, LLOYD BENTSEN,
ROBERT RUBIN, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR ECONOMIC POLICY
AND
EUGENE LUDWIG, COMPTROLLER OF THE CURRENCY

The Briefing Room
1:30 P.M. EST
MR. RUBIN: Hi. I'm Bob Rubin, the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, and I'm going to introduce today's topic.
The President, as you know, has a broad, comprehensive strategy for dealing with the economic problems of the country for putting the country back on the right track for the long-term. A lot of the legislative and executive actions that have taken place in 1993 have been pursuant to that long-term economic strategy of the President's.
An important component of that strategy is to deal with the problems of the inner city and distressed rural communities -- pursuant to his belief that we must make real progress in those areas if this country is going to be successful in the future for all of us. The reform of the Community Reinvestment Act is an essential building block in the efforts I've just mentioned.
In July the President asked the four banking regulators to reform CRA, to reduce paperwork in process and reward performance, and to get that done by January 1, 1994. We're delighted to report that that has been accomplished on schedule. And in conjunction with the President's Community Development Bank and financial institution legislation, which recently passed the House of Representatives, CRA reform will generate billions of dollars in new lending and extend basic banking services to the inner cities and to distressed rural communities around the country.

......

MR. LUDWIG: Fifteen years ago, Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act. Passed it to ensure that banks and thrifts served the financial needs of their entire communities; and in particular economically empowered persons of low and moderate income. But the CRA has never achieved its full promise.

...

The proposed reform package we are unveiling today follows the President's directive and fulfills the promise of the law. It will channel billions of dollars a year in new credit into America's distressed communities, while at the same time reducing unnecessary burdens on banks.

By replacing paperwork requirements with performance tests, this package would stimulate bank lending, investment and service in low and moderate income communities. This proposal is not about formulas. Community groups and bankers both emphasized the need for flexibility. So this proposal recognizes the diversity of banks and the markets they serve. It reduces the examination burden, particularly on small banks without reducing their obligation to serve their communities; and it recognizes that regular public participation is critical if we are to achieve the goals of the law. "
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 21, 2009, 7:02 am EST

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ExVNone, no it is you who are sadly misinformed. The community reinvestment act (CRA) applies to depository banks. The institutions that spurred massive growth in subprime mortgages WERE NOT regulated banks. They were independent brokers who were not monitored, subjected to, nor required to comply with, the CRA. The mortage mess culiminated in about 2007 because it was about that time that the 3-5 year re-sets on adjustable rate mortgages that began in 2000-2001 (note that date). More reckless was lending money to obscenely rich white guys in investment banks who blew the life savings of their clients, and put the world financial system in the toilet with flaky financial instruments, and credit-default swaps. Did the CRA make them do that?
Without the CRA, there would be a lot of people in our own majority race state, who might not own their homes today.
And to think, the rich guys got bailed out and some family that was mislead by a sleazy broker and re-mortgaged their home and used the equity to make repairs is living in a tent! Justice?
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 10:23 am EST

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Yes Ex-Vtr,

Knowing we are going to WAR and knowing what position we were in. Bush, and our Government, did nothing to try and help it before it became a worse problem. You can put the blame on the Democratic party all you want.

During the time it was set up. It was a good thing to do. Things were good. Everything was great. People were making money and bills were paid. You make decisions based on current situations.

It's the failure of everyone in Government that chose to go to war and ignore the affects of the war. Until it was to late. Those are the ones responsible for this mess.

It's just that simple.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 9:36 am EST

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Juliet, if you really believe that the mortgage problem didn't start until 2007 then you are sadly way out of touch with reality. The problem was a snowball that started long before 2007 with people allowed to borrow money that they could never afford to pay back. When the recession began and people started losing jobs and became unemployed or underemployed it put them over the edge and with the flood of building that began in 2000 to keep up with the demand of these new buyers who should have never been allowed to borrow money the market was flooded with empty houses and the values plummeted. Mortage brokers falsified loan papers and then sold the loans to Citi or one of the other mega banks so that they weren't holding the bag. Bush was not responsible for the housing mess, that lays in the lap of your democratic party who thinks economic equality is the golden path. That philosophy is what the communist tried and failed at too. We have far too many people who are willing to live in subsidized housing, collect food stamps and be a drain on society as long as you are willing to give it to them.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 8:21 am EST

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So, ST.

(First thing first. Not all Democrats are Liberals. As all Republicans are not conservative, religious wackjobs. I know you, Rush, and many others want to keep bashing the word liberal. You guys want everyone to fear it. You want to turn it into a dirty word. It's your party that is failing. The Republican party is falling apart. Didn't you get the press release?

I'm going to attempt to help you with your problem. Do you remember learning your shapes?

*Remember, a square is always a rectangle. But a rectangle is not always a square. NOT ALL DEMOCRATS ARE Evil LIBERALS!!! JUST LIKE NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE CONSERVATIVES WACKJOBS!!! WAKE UP!

The word liberal/liberalism = Freedom and Equality = The American Way!

The Liberal Party, on the other hand, can be creepy and disillusional.)



So, hopefully you learned something knew, now what did these "Democrats" do in 2007-2010 that crashed the market?

What did Bush want to do that the Democrats refused? Anything that would have helped the economy?

Did Bush really put any effort toward our economy? (I sincerely only knew him to be ready for war. What great things did he do? Bring us to Daddy's war? And?)

What local things did Bush do that was good? Katrina? (You can side step it all you want. But GOOD Presidents would have wanted to be enlightened to what was going on and what was being done to fix the problem. He did nothing for 3-5 days! NOTHING!)

________________________

War-time economics are always screwed up.

A) It starts off good. Morale is high. Business is booming getting our men/women equipped and ready.

B) Morale starts to dwindle away as we see our sons/daughters not returning home. The economic rush is over. Business is slowing down.

C) Eventually the American dollar became worthless because our money was being printed without anything backing it up. Business has invested tons for R&D and productivity. (Morale for war is low. Especially when the American public was lied to.)

D) A change in power takes place. Work is already low and the plans for relieving employee's has already taken place.

E) Government start's cancelling contracts with big corporations or they are "held off". Business's lose money and lose work/employee's. Brand new machines sit in factories collecting dust because of contracts being breached. Everyone is affected.


I think it's funny. You blame "the man from Kenya" for everything that is wrong with U.S. But you say the damage was started in this direction back in 2007. You claim it had to do with Democrats because they took majority the same year. You assume it had nothing to do with Bush and his inabilities as a leader. And it had nothing to do with war-time politics/economics.

Who was President in 2007? Wasn't he our President in 2002?, too? Are you really trying to make everyone believe our President, who was dumber than a box of rocks, did 5 years of great work and the Democrats destroyed it in 2? What did he do that was so great? What did they do that was so bad?

Bush = Brought us to war... That's it. He is NOT an intelligent man that knows anything about economics. War can make many men rich. But it also has a negative impact on the world economy after a few years. We have seen it everytime we have gone to war.

_________________________


Clinton, in a time of peace, had our economy doing extremely well. Our deficit increase was at an all-time low. He wasn't a great husband. But he was great at his job.

You can try to bash Clinton all you want. Truth is, there were jobs when he was in office. We were doing very well. Everything was looking good. American dollar had value.


And then Bush. War, in the middle-east, appeared to make Bush's start look good. The point we were at, plus the extra jobs provided by the war efforts appeared to make him look like he was doing a great job. Between 2006-2008 we started to see the ill affects of war on our economy.

The American dollar lost value, the war is at a standstill, Government is cancelling contracts or they are being put on hold. Business's invested a great deal of money preparing for contracts that are not being met.

Everyone has been affected. The whole world has.

We all signed up for this when we went to Afghanistan. But it is your beloved that wanted Iraq. He wanted to finish what his father failed to finish. He wanted to bring respect back to their name. That's all it was. Lies and deceit to make the Bush family feel better for their failures. You don't think it's true? Look back to the Old man. The military hated him for leaving too soon. Before they could finish the job task they were sent to complete. He was ridiculed and hated by most of the Armed forces.

People, like ST, are happy with Bush Jr. There are some people who like, want, and love war. Obviously ST is one of them.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 8:20 am EST

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Oops, Allen S, I missed the slop about the community redevelopment act. Here's a clue for you the Act was passed in 1977, the morgage problems didn't start until 2007. So, let me get this straight, you think that the problem was the fault of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and poor minority borrowers some 30 years later? This is the ravings of economic know-nothings and bigots! Get a grip pal!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 11:42 pm EST

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Allen S, I really hate to burst your bubble, but Medicare and Medicaid are very successful programs with low administrative overhead compared to the private sector. This is truly amazing considerin that the primary expense for both programs are taking on the highest risk, highest cost populations that the insurance vampires won't touch. By the way, do you work in that industry or are you just an astro-turf shill for them?
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 11:37 pm EST

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Ya know, for someone that has reiterated the desire for the thread to "die" you sure do like to keep it alive, SC Boy.....

I'm curious if you are capable of an intelligent counter that provides facts backing your views, or if you are only capable of smug douchebag replies? BTW that's a rhetorical question, you old windbag....hurry up and get back to the checkerboard...Notta says it's your turn.
-- Posted by David Randall on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 6:31 pm EST

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ST: Your screen name continues to just crack me up. Did your Momma suggest it? They say Mommas are always proud of their sons, even when they grow up to be doofuses.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 5:44 pm EST

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That Guy and S C Boy, You two must have spent your childhoods together sitting under high power lines eating lead paint chips.
Every time some liberal puke takes office, we hit a downward slide. Obama is even more incompetent than Clinton. He's just as dishonest too. You make remarks objecting to the description as "The man from Kenya". He never produced a valid or legitimate birth certificate. Would you rather have him called "The man from the most corrupt state and city in the country"?
By the way. I know that you two do not have sufficient brain cells to remember the year 2007, but here is a FACT for you: The United States economic downturn began when the liberals took over Congress in January of 2007. That is a fact. The liberal vermin promised that they would take us in a "new direction". They did keep that promise. I will grant you that. They took us from a booming economy and low unemployment into their new direction right down the toilet.
Liberals are indeed an noxious plague that has contaminated our country.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 4:50 pm EST

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You have to hand it to "That Guy", after all, Joe Walsh released an album in 1976 that was dedicated to him.
-- Posted by Joe Bradley on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 10:19 am EST

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Allen, I agree that we need at least two major changes to our political system in order to change this revolving door of incompetents that "represent" the people. The current system continues to feed the extremes on both sides. First, term limits for all elected officials and second, end gerrymandering of districts that have provided "safe" districts for some no matter their political persuasion. Since the pols write the rules to the game, I have NO expectation that either will ever come about. So, we will continue to bash one another for all time. I wonder what our pols think if they ever read postings such as have been posted here ( and most everywhere else)? They must think we are all a bunch of dupes. I would like to see all of us meet together for a dinner conversation some time. It would be a fun night. My wife says " Not at our house" though.

Keep the bashing going, our pols must love to see us direct our anger at one another.
-- Posted by bud kafer Jr. on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 9:02 am EST

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Juliet: You want to talk about health care and financial regulation. Let's talk about the financial success of our government running medicare and medicaid. They are the next best thing to the Maddoff ponzie scheme. With that experience, how can anyone imagine a single payer healthcare system run by our government? Now, financial regulation; We fail to discuss the oversight Barney Frank and Chris Dodd provided for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Do you remember where and how the financial meltdown began? Yes, Community Redevelopment Act that required unsecured loans by banks to people not qualified to borrow money. We then had FM and FM bury these in financial instruments created by these government sponsored organizations. So, let's talk about financial regulation! The above mentioned Financial Chair heads are the ones that should be removed from office.

We all need to realize our politicians, from both parties, care about themselves and only themselves. It is time for term limits and/or a revolution to vote all of them out of office.
-- Posted by Allen Seiple on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 6:15 am EST

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This is some of the funniest stuff I've ever read.

That Guy wins it though.
-- Posted by Lives in Colorado on Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 2:52 am EST

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As I thought not an intelligent response but another tap dancing, side stepping,, poster bashing, Bush bashing, fact denial response by one of the whackos leading authorities on stupidity.

Job well done. I salute such forethought and thorough research done by such a upstanding citizen.

ROFLMAO

Is this the best you all can respond with? Never address any of the facts just return with more lame responses?

I know one thing for sure, if the Man from Kenya was a Republican, you people would be all over him like maggots. Kinda like the two face practice with Bush, Imus but not Letterman.

Thanks so much for the entertainment. We all enjoy your posts and brings tears to our eyes on a daily basis.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 7:19 pm EST

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"BOD BLESS GEORGE W BUSH... We want a real President not some dope full of no hope who bashes our allies and parties with TERRORIST!!! somethings wonrg here?"

Yes, indeed... "Bod" bless him. To wish anything else would be "wonrg", indeed.

Uh... are there any legitimate conservatives here with IQs higher than 50? Anyone? Anyone at all? Smart Thinking doesn't count, as we all know he's just a damn Fake Lib'rul Plant intended to make right-wingnuts look like complete and total idiots.

(Hint: any internet weirdo who starts talking about fake birth certificates and "the man from Kenya" doesn't count, either.)
-- Posted by That Guy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 6:23 pm EST

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"Debating an idiot is like peeing into the wind. You lose at both".
--Benjamin Franklin.

(Ben Franklin did not really say that. I just made it up. So since when is making stuff up and posting it on this board a crime?)
-- Posted by SC Boy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 6:22 pm EST

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"If my three tours in combat zones and my 26 years of service makes me a "Fake Veteran", What does that make you who does zero for the community or country, and sits in his trailer all day wasting oxygen????"

Ooh -- wait, wait, I know the answer to that one... um... oh, I got it!

That would make me the president of the "Smart Thinking Fan Club"!

(Hypothetically, of course.)
-- Posted by That Guy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 6:12 pm EST

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Ah SC my 524 post and you are saying what about it? Other than calling me a doofus and refusing to try an dprove me wrong you just make a moron comment and think that is all the credibility that you need. Where do you get your information CNN? New York Times? or the Washington Post? Yeah and I am the doofus.

Maybe you should go to the libray and turn pages and see what you can prove to be UNTRUE and then please publish your sources. Thanks.

Do the Whackos have anyone with more than one brain cell? Where are they when it is time for a factual debate? They run and hide behind name calling and childish denials. ROFLMAO jus tmakes you all want to become a whacko, doesn't it? Such fine exampes of leadership.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:49 pm EST

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If George Washington was the First President and took office in 1789, then who was President from 1776 thru to 1789? After all if we were founded as you claim in 1776, who was our leader? Now in 1781 a John Hanson was the President under the Articles of Confederation but who knows of John Hanson? It seems History teaches you Washington and yet he did NOT become President until 1789 AFTER the U.S. Constitution was ratified. Does that mean we were LOST until 1789 and then FOUNDED or were we here and just didn't have a President? LOL Were we a country before? Now if 37 states didn't become states until AFTER 1776, then does that mean it was because there were 13 Original COLONIES ( Before they became states in officially in 1789) and how long were the colonies here? Do we count the founding as starting with Plymouth Colony in one of the original 13 Colonies? IF so then 1620 would be the year.
Now if you have any better explanation, try not to just say I am wrong, but try to produce some facts to your claims, otherwise you are just HOT AIR like so many of you r compatriots.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:43 pm EST

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Comfy: I was referring to the 5:24 post from that None None guy. You know, the doofus who believes everything he read online.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:42 pm EST

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Comfy: In addition to everything contained in the previous post, I would like to add that it has recently been proven to me that the earth is flat. At first I was skeptical but I got the information online so know it is factual. Check it out:

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
-- Posted by SC Boy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:39 pm EST

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SC BOY

Whatsa matter not enough inteligence to answer my post?
ROFLMAO I didn't think so.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:32 pm EST

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Comfy

You didn't even come close to answering the question. Try again.

Name one single thing that the Man from Kenya has accomplished since becoming President. I am not interested in where he went to school and you are right his money didn't get him into politics but whose did?

"Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in California. He is very open about his two years at Occidental; he tried all kinds of drugs and was wasting his time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not apply himself to his studies. "Barry" (that was the name he used all his life) during this time had two roommates, Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan. During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college, he made a "round the world" trip. Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia, next Hyderabad in India, three weeks in Karachi, Pakistan where he stayed with his roommate's family, then off to Africa to visit his father's family. Question, Where did he get the money for this trip?

When he came back he started school at Columbia University in New York. It is at this time he wants everyone to call him Barack, not Barry. Do you know what the tuition is at Columbia? It's not cheap! to say the least. Where did he get money for tuition? Student Loans? Maybe. After Columbia , he went to Chicago to work as a Community Organizer for $12,000. a year. Why Chicago? Why not New York? He was already living in New York.

By "chance" he met Antoin "Tony" Rezko, born in Aleppo, Syria, and a real estate developer in Chicago. Rezko has been convicted of fraud and bribery this year. Rezko, was named "Entrepreneur of the Decade" by the Arab American Business and Professional Association". About two years later, Obama entered Harvard Law School. Do you have any idea what tuition is for Harvard Law School? Where did he get the money for Law School? More student loans? After Law school, he went back to Chicago. Rezko offered him a job, which he turned down. But, he did take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Guess what? They represented "Rezar" which is Rezko's firm. Rezko was one of Obama's first major financial contributors when he ran for office in Chicago. In 2003, Rezko threw an early fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendelland claims was instrumental in providing Obama with "seed money" for his U.S. Senate race. In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwoood District of Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking price). With ALL those Student Loans Where did he get the money for the property? On the same day Rezko's wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price. The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi born Billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Obama's new home was purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with Rezko."

Fine! there were some book sales. ROFLMAO Yeah! Right.


"Now, we have Obama running for President. Valerie Jarrett, was Michele Obama's boss. She is now Obama's chief advisor and he does not make any major decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett born? Ready for this? Shiraz, Iran! Do we see a pattern here?"

"On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos. Obama, on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim faith". When questioned, "he said he made a mistake". Some mistake!

All of the above information I got on line. If you would like to check it Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times Obama visited Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008."


When you get done having someone read all of this to you do some googling about Alice Palmer and your buddy and see how he got his start in politics. At Least President Bush was elected to ALL of his positions and didn't have to use covert methods.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 5:24 pm EST

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NN, per your post on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:39 pm EST: I answered the question that you asked and then some. If you want an answer to a different question, you should try asking a different question.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 2:55 pm EST

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firedog: You just got schooled, baby! That's right, our country was "founded" in 1492. That must be "founded" as in "found". Isn't life wonderful? You learn something new every day!
-- Posted by SC Boy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 10:54 am EST

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Firedog

Here is the proof he was not born here and now the Man from Kenya needs to address these challenges and prove he was. The ball is in HIS court andnot ours.


http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-161263
"Hawaiian law most definitely allows foreign births to have a certificate filed"
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
"Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii."
"A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing.
it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents."
"Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
"Obama traveled to Pakistan in 81 with an Indonesian passport.
Prior to 2007, Indonesian law did not permit dual citizenship. Thus, if Obama actively kept his Indonesian citizenship, his US citizenship could be challenged."

http://stop-obama.info/barack_obama_015.htm
"Even Kenya's ambassador to the United States, Rateng Oginga Ogego stated Obama was born in Kenya. Obama's Kenya grandmother stated she was at the hospital in Kenya when Obama was born. "

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2141909/posts
Links to many Hospitals in Hawaii and verification from hospitals that neither his mom or him were ever there. Phone numbers so you can call for yourself or just go to their links.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 10:52 am EST

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Firedog

We were founded in 1492 and became a Colony in 1620. When you say we did not exist there were 13 Colonies. We did not get our Independence from Britian until 1783 with the signing of the Paris Treaty.
The Mayflower Compact was as much as part of our roots as any other piece of paper.

Is Guam a country? how about Peutro Rico? We were still a country but France and Britian were fighting over us and in some places Spain. We were still found when the first piece of paper was written to govern us and that would be the Mayflower Compact in 1620. Now Independence Day would be when the Declaration of Independence was written or in 1788, after the U.S. Constitution was ratified? or would be in 1783 when the Treaty of Paris actually recognized our Independence from Britain? Why not November of 1620 when the Mayflower Compact was written to give a set of laws to the new world colony? So what is the correct date? Just because the Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 does NO mean in the slightest way that was the signal of the start of this country, that would be 1620. So Firedog, just because you celebrate Independence Day on July 4th, does that really mean that is when it happened? NO! So was it 1620, 1776, 1781, 1783 or 1788? How about when the first shot was fired and killed a British Soldier? When the first shot was fired and killed a Spaniard? or was it when the first shot was fired and killed a Frenchmen? How about when Nathan Hale was hung and spoke about only one life to give to HIS COUNTRY? When exactly were we founded and by who/ Are you saying Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson or even George Washington, found us? Interesting.

What did Christopher Columbus get credit for in 1492? Did he FIND the NEW land and give it a name or did he DISCOVER the new land? When was Oxygen discovered?
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 10:44 am EST

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Firedog

We were founded in 1492 and became a Colony in 1620. When you say we did not exist there were 13 Colonies. We did not get our Independence from Britian until 1783 with the signing of the Paris Treaty.
The Mayflower Compact was as much as part of our roots as any other piece of paper.

Is Guam a country? how about Peutro Rico? We were still a country but France and Britian were fighting over us and in some places Spain. We were still found when the first piece of paper was written to govern us and that would be the Mayflower Compact in 1620. Now Independence Day would be in was written or in 1788. So what is the correct date? Just because the Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 does NO mean in the slightest way that was the signal of the start of this country, that would be 1620. So Firedog, just because you celebrate Independence Day on July 4th, does that really mean that is when it happened? NO! So was it 1620, 1776, 1781, 1783 or 1788? How about when the first shot was fired and killed a British Soldier? When the first shot was fired and killed a Spaniard? or was it when the first shot was fired and killed a Frenchmen? How about when Nathan Hale was hung and spoke about only one life to give to HIS COUNTRY? When exactly were we founded and by who/ Are you saying Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson or even George Washington, found us? Interesting.

What did Christopher Columbus get credit for in 1492? Did he FIND the NEW land and give it a name or did he DISCOVER the new land? When was Oxygen discovered?
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 10:39 am EST

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Hey Robert....... W H A T E V E R ! ! !
-- Posted by Allen Kuusela on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 10:04 am EST

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Hey, we can learn a lot from George Bush. He ruined everything he touched. He fouled out in baseball. Got the dry heaves in an oil company. Who thought it was a good idea to put him in charge of the free world? He almost single handedly ruined the planet. He may still have if the "new guy" can't clean up his mess; which has been the story of GWB's life. He always has and always will need a clean up guy.
-- Posted by Robert Stannard on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 7:51 am EST

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Even if Obama doesn't accomplish a single thing in the next 3 years...It's still better than going backward...
-- Posted by Mikie None on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 6:39 am EST

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Hate to correct the smartest person on this board but, ST, Nixon was not impeached. It was obvious that he was going to be impeached and, like a coward, he resigned before it happened so as to avoid a trial and to keep all his retirement benefits that he would lose if impeached by the House of Representatives and convicted by the Senate. In addition, the man who said he wanted the truth to come out acted again like the coward he was and accepted a full pardon from then President Ford, so that he could never be tried on any charges related to Watergate. This while many of his aides and loyal friends were going to jail. Oh yes, Nixon, a true American hero. Someone the Repubs can fondly remember.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 4:40 am EST

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BUCKFUSH!
-- Posted by doc johnson None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 11:12 pm EST

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Oh dear, still a food fight! Pig slop. Why no talk about important issues...health care, financial regulation, economic equity...? Keep tossing the leftovers!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 10:47 pm EST

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....and by the way Fire Dog,
Your Obama hero hangs out with some really nice terrorists. Bill Ayres, Reverend Wright, etc. Obama denies this of course.
As far as Obama's lack of a valid birth certificate goes, the only one he produced had no number on it and was a fake. Prove he wasn't born in the US?? Get your sorry twisted ass up and prove he was.
You made reference in one of your past posts about who is racist. How about George Wallace....a liberal democrat???
Wars?? Kennedy (liberal democrat)got us into Vietnam on a large scale. H. Johnson (liberal democrat)escalated the war. Between the two of those bozos, over 56,000 American lives were lost. Who got us out of Vietnam?? President Nixon.
Nixon lied about Watergate. That is true. He was impeached, and like a man, he stepped down. Another one of your liberal heroes, Bill Clinton was impeached. He was not a man, but a slime who refused to step down even after he was impeached. Remember White Water?? Bill and his husband Hillary both lied in White Water. Remember Vince Foster who was tied in with the Clintons?? He's dead!
You want to talk about honesty VS corruption?? Your kenyan born Obama got his political start in the most corrupt city and state in the country.
Firedog, Your info is bogus. Your thoughts are warped. You are too young ( or too much in denial) to remember much of anything.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 10:39 pm EST

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Give it up Firedog. You are sooo far to the left. You are obviously a 20-something year old who thinks he knows all. Get a life and grow up.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 10:28 pm EST

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ST, show proof he was NOT born in the us. post your sources.. other than far right wing ones and conspiracy thoerists. as to the liberals hating the military... that is a blatant lie. who exactly cut funding to the VA for the past 8 years? who shot down expansion of VA benifits? because someone thinks we are using our military in the wrong way does not mean they hate them. because someone thinks that we are spending enough on the military, and we are wasting alot of what we spend there, and should spend it more intelligently, this means that they hate them?
Because one can look to a foreign country and acknowledge their accompishments, even saying that they have accomplished things the US has been unable to, or should strive to, means they hate the US?
No one said Iraq NEVER had WMDs, just that the evidence for them after GW1 is shaky at best. we all know how he killed the kurds.
Nor do liberals hate police officers. they hate when the police are given undue authority, or choose to claim such. They hate when one group chooses to trample on the rights of others, and will fight vigorously to defend those whose rights were trampled on.
Which group stood up for civil rights? which group stood up for womans sufferage? conservatives or liberals? i will let you look that up, post what you find, with references of course.
Are there those on the far left that are militant? yes. just as there are far right loonies that shoot up hospitals, lynch black men and shoot up holocaust museums. heck... Timothy Mcveigh was a registered, and staunch republican. both sides, when gone to extreme are capable of great evil.
and it is impressive, finally, you post with no ranting insults. makes having a conversation a bit easier.
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 9:54 pm EST

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NN,
First of, quick history lesson. America, as a country, was NOT founded before those shots. sorry.. again.. this is starting to get old.. YOU ARE WRONG! America, as a country, was founded on July 4th, 1776. the boston massacre was march 5, 1770. according to the Actual math(no the math you seem to do) that is no where near 200 years prior, actually it is closer to 6 years before. wow.... anyhow, as to what i was trying to say, that you were completely unable to understand was very simple, even if i did not explain it well. Here it is... since the beginning of America (on or around july 4th 1776), it has never been a one sided debate. Those who differ of opinion as to how the government should be run have had to meet in the middle. those who refuse to even listen to the other side, to shut those who disagree down with childish insults and even threats, are truly unamerican. America was based on meeting in the middle.
As to the rest of your post... thank you. finally something intelligently written, and you make some good points. careful NN, people might come to expect that from you more often!
and we actually agree, if he was chosen only b/c he was black, that is a very sad thing. as to the state of the world? Iran does not yet have nukes, close but not yet. North Korea would be on the edge no matter who was president, they were there when bush was in office. this is Obamas fault? really? i think maybe the fact that the poison dwarf is getting close to dying may be a much bigger contributing factor.
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 9:31 pm EST

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One thing I do agree with you all on though. It is time for this letter to vanish.
Are you listening Rutland Herald??
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 7:35 pm EST

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Fire Dog Post>>>>>trying to shut down those who disagree with insults. you are the ones, with your utter disrespect of anyone who disagrees with you, who are unpatriotic.
-- Posted by firedog on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 10:27 pm EST

Fire dog, I will have as much respect for your illegally installed (born in Kenya)"President" Obama as you did for George Bush. ZERO. At least Bush was born in the US.
Liberals are known for being very unpatriotic. They hate the military who fought for their rights to say stupid things. They hate police officers who rid towns, states, and counties of drug dealers, etc. Liberals think every country is good except for the US. Liberals still spout garbage about Iraq having no weapons of mass destruction. How the hell do you think Saddam killed thousands of Kurds??? With a slingshot?? He killed them with weapons of mass destruction. What the hell do you think a "Scud" is?? It is certainly not an object for family picnic fun.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 7:34 pm EST

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Comfy: If you stop dropping chum for the bottom feeders maybe the RH will take this letter down. It's only been up for nine days. Of course, as Juliet points out, this has long ago ceased to be about this letter.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 7:02 pm EST

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Democratic presidential nomination,elected president...and all without being propped up by a powerful and wealthy clan.
-Comfy

Seriously Comfy? How did he pay for that mansion he owns in Chicago? How did a relative nobody ascend to the Presidency in unprecedented time...luck? Open your eyes Comfy, your Messiah is not free from corruption, just like every other politician out there.
-- Posted by David Randall on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:43 pm EST

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No One will miss you Juliet, you really didn't have to annouce what you wer egoing to do on the Rutland Herald Forum. ROFLMAO Now that you are gone we all can enjoy some freah air. LOL
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:43 pm EST

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Comfy

I wasn't asking about his education I was asking you name one thing he has accomplished since becoming President. ONE THING, Comfy. Try, Try Hard and use google, use newspapers use anything you want. Name One thing.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:39 pm EST

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Firedog, Our country was FOUNDED almost two hundred years prior to those shots fired. What does John Adams have to do with the Man from Kenya?

Ex Vermonter, nice tantrum, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. You missed what I said by a long shot. The Democrats I refer to are not the Government but the Whackos that occupy these threads and seem to bash Bush and seem to want me to stop challenging the Man from Kneya and yet don't even bring up the Letterman story. Seems you are all people of a Do AS you say and not as you do and you all have very selective logic. You are the one who did not understand my post so please try and give me an example of that Intelligence that you refer to. ROFLMAO

"too bad you two are unable to see that it is the differences of opinion, not the blind agreement, that makes this country what it is. and it is the insults, blindness and arrogence of folks like you that weaken it."

Say what? What the He&& are you trying to say? You should read your own posts before you try to label anyone elses. LLOl YOu need to practice what you preach and this country is a Republic and is lead by Majority and not by the whiners. Although the Democrats seem to feed the whiners for the sake of saving a Vote. I remember that Bill Clinton was the FIRST Black President and he even opened his token office in the Harlem. ROFLMAO

Have any of you thought that the Man from Kenya is being used? The world is about ready to possibly enter a Nuclear War or one he&& of a showdown and who would want to be office when it all comes to head? Was he allowed to slide in to become the token Black scapegoat? You say that Bush rigged the 2000 Elections so if you can claim such a thing then the fact must be that elections can be rigged and was it rigged so the Man from Kenya will be a fall guy? Is there a conspiracy?

Iran is in turmoil and they have Nuke power and North Korea is ready to launch a Nuke and their leader has less brains than a bona fide Democrat. Yet we hear the Man from Kenya only make a DUH! comment that "North Korea is a Grave Threat". WOW! I bet he didn't even need a teleprompter for that.

You really need to forget about trying to make B.S. and take a hard cold look at the reality of the situation right now and personnally, I don't care what color the Man from Kenya is, if he was elected only because he was Black, then that shows a lot of ignorance of a lot of Voters and the Presidency is not a job to try and prove points but to only put the qualified and with the world as it is, I don't think the Man from Kenya has a clue what to do and you know what? If he does the wrong thing be prepared for more deaths in a day than what have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since day one. Many of you are way too young to recall the reality of the Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was very real and the world almost came to an end and we are going down that path again, the BIG DIFFERENCE is that the threats are not coming from somehwat stable leaders but from insane leaders with a agenda to destroy.


Wake Up and forget about waging war with your fellow Americans. Go to the last link I posted and look at the faces of those people and tell me if you think those are people who want to torture and kill for the thrill of it.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:36 pm EST

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This is no longer a discussion; it's a food fight. Declare victory and end it. Personally, I am off to the NYT Caucus...for some fresh air for a while.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 5:56 pm EST

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The Man from Kenya has been more successful? Please explain one thing he has been successful in, just one. You are lost in La La Land. The Man from Kenya has been a total failure.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:32 am EST

uhhhh...just off the top o' my head....getting into Harvard Law School, graduating, passing BAR exams, successful constitutional law practice, elected to senate, solid, successful marriage, Democratic presidential nomination,elected president...and all without being propped up by a powerful and wealthy clan. I can't wait to see what he does next!
I used to believe what they say, that there are no stupid questions....
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 10:16 am EST

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If Obama has been a total failure None None La La Man, what does that make you, what have you acomplished in your life? Obama is trying to end the never ending cycle of war, maybe in your eyes the only way to do that is to kill every person on earth who isn't a white red neck but as you can see you're in a very small minority.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 9:39 am EST

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"None None you wouldn't understand a high level intelligent answer if it fell on you. If I remember correctly everyone was asking for Imus' head, not just the democrats and it was NBC that fired him not any government official. But I guess you either can't remember back that far or just didn't bother to follow the whole story. It sure does seem to bother the heck out of you that an African American man has been so much more successful than you, of course he's smarter, more ambitious and a better person, that has a lot to do with it.

-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 9:47 pm EST "

Well Ex Vermonter is very clear 6that you don't understand my answers. ROFLMAO

I asked why the Democrats are not calling for David Lettermen's head and YOU and the rest of your Bush Bashing morons are the ones I refer to. I will use smaller words for you, if that will help.

The Man from Kenya has been more successful? Please explain one thing he has been successful in, just one. You are lost in La La Land. The Man from Kenya has been a total failure.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 6:32 am EST

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BOD BLESS GEORGE W BUSH... We want a real President not some dope full of no hope who bashes our allies and parties with TERRORIST!!! somethings wonrg here?
-- Posted by Bud Moser on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 12:48 am EST

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so, what john adams a traitor for defending the english troops after the shots were fired in boston? many at the time thought so, but it was on that act, in part, that our country was founded. it is too bad you two are unable to see that it is the differences of opinion, not the blind agreement, that makes this country what it is. and it is the insults, blindness and arrogence of folks like you that weaken it. i am glad that we live in a republic such as ours, that keeps extremists from both sides from gaining too much power. You may believe you are right, but that is only in your head. until you are able to hold an intelligent, adult conversation, without the constant childish insults, you really will never be taken seriously, and your opinion will be laughed at as nothing but lunatic rantings. you make a mockery of the democratic process by trying to shut down those who disagree with insults. you are the ones, with your utter disrespect of anyone who disagrees with you, who are unpatriotic.
-- Posted by firedog on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 10:27 pm EST

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None None you wouldn't understand a high level intelligent answer if it fell on you. If I remember correctly everyone was asking for Imus' head, not just the democrats and it was NBC that fired him not any government official. But I guess you either can't remember back that far or just didn't bother to follow the whole story. It sure does seem to bother the heck out of you that an African American man has been so much more successful than you, of course he's smarter, more ambitious and a better person, that has a lot to do with it.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 9:47 pm EST

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If the first Video doesn't make sense to you, then maybe this one will

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ervaMPt4Ha0
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:36 pm EST

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You are right None None. Liberals are a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic of self serving morons. You left out the word "Traitors" though. Liberals will always route for the opposing side. Look at the scumbag who they voted in as President. He knuckles under to other country's leaders, wasn't born in the US, hangs out with terrorist supporters like Reverend Wright and Bill Ayres, and had ZERO leadership.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:22 pm EST

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You are right None None. Liberals are a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic bunch of self serving morons. You left out the word "Traitors" though. Liberals will always route for the opposing side. Look at the scumbag who they voted in as President. He knuckles under to other country's leaders.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:18 pm EST

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After watching the Video,

"Do NOT feel bad for those who have sacrificed their lives, be Proud to know such men and women lived."

General George Patton
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:17 pm EST

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To the Veterans and True Americans who care

Please watch this and pass it on.It is a bit old, and more faces need to be added, but I am sure the point is made. Please, Remember and above all SUPPORT.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nptA5uj6ZRY
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:12 pm EST

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By the way That Guy,
If my three tours in combat zones and my 26 years of service makes me a "Fake Veteran", What does that make you who does zero for the community or country, and sits in his trailer all day wasting oxygen????
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:11 pm EST

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ex Vermonter/Notta/Thay Guy

I do not refer to Muslims of the U.S., even though I don't trust them. I refer to the man from Kenya doing his First Interview with a Muslim Country and as he travels abroad he makes apologies to the Muslims about what the U.S. has done. If you Liberals Whackos support this action then you all have a ***** loose.
The Man from Kenya is starting to think he is a King and getting involved with GM and firing their CEO is actions unbecoming of the Federal Govt and now he has fired yet a nother peson and by passed the Appeal Process, all because he didn't like him.
I also find it rather insulting that the Two Face Democrats yelled for Don Imus's Job and have asked me to stop calling the Man from Kenya the Man from Kenya ( there is no insult there only a challenge) because you seem tot hink it is wrong. Why aren't you asking for David Letterman's job for his insult at Palin's daughter? I know, do as you say and not as you do. The TWO FACE Democrats.
Don't even waste your time in asking me to lighten up on the Man from Kenya, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN in this LIFETIME. Until you peopl ecan prove you are people of Integerty and Principle, which you have done a pretty lousy job of. You have shown your real selves on what you support and hwat you bash and what you allow.
I am expecting to get some real High Level Intelligent responses from the group of you and I can almost dictate what is going to be said, you are that predictable.
ROFLMAO what a pathetic group and you call yourselves Americans, B.S. you are the most Unpatriotic, self serving bunch of individuals I have yet to talk to.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:10 pm EST

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That Guy,
You are the racist here. Not once did I mention anything about anyone's race. Are you that bad off that you cannot comprehend or read English??
George Wallace was a liberal democrat racist. Are you related to him?
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 7:09 pm EST

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"You are a riot That Guy. You do have a great imagination. Are you one of the writers for South Park??
Also, I supposed that you have a girl....no wait...a boy friend who lives in Provincetown???"

And the hits just keep on coming... I'd completely forgotten about this angle. Not only is anyone who disagrees with "Smart Thinking" a Godless liberal Commie black illegal immigrant abortionist... he's also GAY! Of course -- why didn't I think of that?

See, an amateur Internet Tough Guy / Fake Veteran is gonna pull out that trump card a bit early. But not "Smart Thinking"... he waits until the third or fourth post to bring out the big guns!

Bravo, man. You are the Master. Seriously... I am in awe.

Your New Pal,
That Guy

P.S. I'm not familiar with Provincetown... but you sure seem to be. What is this "Provincetown" you speak of? How have you come to be so... familiar with that place? Enlighten me, oh Master!
-- Posted by That Guy on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 6:12 pm EST

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Bashing Bush is not going to stop anytime soon, history can be a real b*tch like that. I will keep this short.

BUCK FUSH

Enough said!
-- Posted by doc johnson None on Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 5:40 pm EST

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."<<< Fire dog, Go back and read some of your own posts. yeah, i did. seems i CAN actually make a point without insults. something you seem to lack. in fact, this is one of your few posts that did not contain any. not sure if i should feel honored.
NN, glad to see you back, had not seen you post in a day or so. was getting worried you got booted... woulda been sad.
"Gov being thrown out of office, Senators buying their way in, a President who bribed i his way into politics and was stuck in office to be nothing more than the Democrats fall guy, let the stupid, black man make a fool of himself and take the heat. Problem is the Democrats have no one who can speak and do justice to the party, it has all become a Big Circus " sounds just like the republicans actually... could it be they are both completely corrupt???
-- Posted by firedog on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 10:47 pm EST

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Another ranting post from the Man from La La land (alias None None. "Muslims mean more then Americans", apparently he doesn't realize there are millions of American born citizens who are also Muslims. Nukes being fired from Iran and N. Korea, I guess he means we should nuke them first, heck Iraq didn't even have nuclear weapons and Bush invaded them. Bush made many mistakes and he did some things right but he's gone and Obama will make mistakes and do some things right too but to constantly defame and slander the President along with everyone else who's not an American to the Man from La La Lands standards is pathetic to say the least. Racism is alive and well in vermont.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 10:27 pm EST

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Firedog and That Guy/Notta/Ex vermonter/Juliet

You two did EXACTLY what you were accusing Smart Thinking of doing. You both dedicated your posts to bashing hin for bashing you. ROFLAMO

The only one who actually posted something related to the Thread was CF Reality.

No! they do not push enlisted out after 20 or 24 years in any military branch, unless youhave a profile. You earn 50% of you rbase at 19yrs 6 mos and at 29yrs 6 mos you earn 75% of base.
Officers have to have schools or Enlisted rank behind them if they want to keep their Commision after a certain point, otherwise they take a reduction to E-5 and continue to serve and will collect retirement based on the highest rank held Honorably for 2 years.


As far as topic, you should really forget the Bush years, they are gone, just like Slavery was after the Civil War. Fools dwell on the past that they can not recall accurately. What you should be doing is watching how the fools in Washington are ignoring the Huge threats coming from Iran and North Korea. Other than a few words from Hillary you would think it was just business as usual and all the bad boys will grow tired and go home. ROFLMAO

The Democrats will keep us filled with material for many years to come. Their wild and insane spending, their convicts that are being hired, the idea that we must accept and forgive ILLEGAL Aliens, Muslims mean more than Americans, less bailout Europe and the Big boys and give the taxpayer $14 per week becasue they Can't be trusted with their $800 bribe. Gov being thrown out of office, Senators buying their way in, a President who bribed i his way into politics and was stuck in office to be nothing more than the Democrats fall guy, let the stupid, black man make a fool of himself and take the heat. Problem is the Democrats have no one who can speak and do justice to the party, it has all become a Big Circus lead by the Man from Kenya.

Democrat Motto "Do as I say and NOt as I did or do." ROFLMAO

Keep bashing Bush, he has gone home and is enjoying life and you all don't seem to be monitoring the New Guy because you are too ignorant to look at the present and let go of the past. Maybe when a Nuke Missle coming from either Iran or N. Korea hits the U.S. you'll wake up to reality, maybe not.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 10:12 pm EST

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"learn to have a debate without the insults, maybe someone will take you seriously for once."<<< Fire dog, Go back and read some of your own posts.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 10:01 pm EST

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You are a riot That Guy. You do have a great imagination. Are you one of the writers for South Park??
Also, I supposed that you have a girl....no wait...a boy friend who lives in Provincetown???
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 9:59 pm EST

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I actually believe that ST did serve in the army. although 26 years... had to be officer, they normally push enlisted out after 20-24 years. wait, you could be NG, or reserve... so i gues thats not too far fetched either. Anyways, lay off his military career... that is not something to be taken lightly. as for his ability to comminucate, unfortunetly they did not teach him that in the military. he seems to think the only way to have a debate is to insult, unfortunetly he doesnt realize that also negates any point he might have, since it makes him look like a dimwitted fool. learn to have a debate without the insults, maybe someone will take you seriously for once.
-- Posted by firedog on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:57 pm EST

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"I had to laugh. Another oxygen wasting idiot liberal vermin strikes again. How did your feeble little brain cell perceive anything written that was even remotely resembling "sexist", "racist", or "Cousin humpin'" ??? The "Cousin humpin" must have come from one of your fondest memories. The "sexist" and "Racist" must have been a typical liberal hallucination.
"Fake Veteran"??? I suppose my 26 years is "fake", and your years sitting on the sofa watching CNN makes you a "real" veteran?? You Sir, are a moron."

See what I mean? This guy is fantastic! Just as stupid, scatterbrained and argumentatively inept as a fuming, puttering right-wing nutjob could possibly be. Funny -- good, good stuff.

I especially like the "26 years in the military" story. I suppose you also have a girlfriend, but, uh, she lives in Canada, so we probably don't know her. Oh, man, it just doesn't get any better than this...

Smart Thinking, you are my favorite new cartoon character. You even have a catch line, like "where's the beef" or "What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?"; yours is "oxygen wasting idiot liberal vermin"! Ha ha ha ha ha! Now make another funny! C'mon, entertain us... dance, monkey, dance!

Hugs,

That "Idiot" Guy (man, you KILL me!)
-- Posted by That Guy on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:40 pm EST

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You should keep a list of your partisans.

I'm liberal in the true meaning of liberalism. Freedom and equality. You know, THE AMERICAN WAY!

But, I don't believe in the liberal, democratic, or republican parties. They have all failed us. They are all corrupt. Big Money from Big Business supports these parties. People that invest big money want return for their big money. It's politics.

So ST.... You are incorrect, yet again.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 8:29 pm EST

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Posted by C F Ridiculous>>>>
""Just because you fought in Iraq doesn't mean you KNOW THE TRUTH about the war. You may know what it was like to be there. But that doesn't mean you know WHY we were there!""" <<Posted by C F Ridiculous

It gives me a much better view of the truth than you have from watching CNN (Communist News Nutwork). Liberals are morons.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 7:59 pm EST

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Posted from That (idiot) Guy>>>>"drooling sexist racist cousin-humpin' fake-veteran"<<<<

I had to laugh. Another oxygen wasting idiot liberal vermin strikes again. How did your feeble little brain cell perceive anything written that was even remotely resembling "sexist", "racist", or "Cousin humpin'" ??? The "Cousin humpin" must have come from one of your fondest memories. The "sexist" and "Racist" must have been a typical liberal hallucination.
"Fake Veteran"??? I suppose my 26 years is "fake", and your years sitting on the sofa watching CNN makes you a "real" veteran?? You Sir, are a moron.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 7:50 pm EST

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so ST, because someone was not in an area, they are not allowed to say anything about it? sounds like censoship. sounds like you do not actually believe the constitution you swore to uphold is true and correct, or maybe it is only ok if someone agrees with you. i do not see you telling NN, AK or any of your other righties shut up... what give you the right? you fought? congratultions and thank you. But, by your logic, you can no longer comment on liberals because you are not one. nor are you allowed to comment on montpieler or washington, because you are in neither of those places. you are not allowed to question Obamas birth because you were neither there nor were you in Hawaii or that specific hospital. wow, you really are no longer allowed to do much, going by your logic. glad you didnt help write the bill or rights or the constitution. once again... you are wrong!
-- Posted by firedog on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 5:05 pm EST

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Oh...my...god. They took my post down. Stupid Thinking and his band of merry men post stupidity, venom and bile repeatedly and their garbage is left up for days. I call them on it and my post is taken down in thirty minutes. So Stupid, you believe in the 1st Amendment as long as it's you doing the puking, eh?
-- Posted by SC Boy on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 4:22 pm EST

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What Juliet has been saying makes sense. It has been well thought out. And it has been supported over the past few years. Everything she wrote is truth, not fiction.

Why are people so afraid of the truth?

ST, you have nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING good to say, except that she is a liberal! And then you start bashing liberals.

And you think liberals are the ones with low IQ's?

You think they are the problem? Seriously?



Just because you fought in Iraq doesn't mean you KNOW THE TRUTH about the war. You may know what it was like to be there. But that doesn't mean you know WHY we were there!

All truth's written below and then you decide WHY we were there:

Oil companies made an INSANE profit. Our government even questioned their ethics, in court, before the price of gasoline dropped from 4 dollars/gallon. They had RECORD BREAKING profits. No arrests were made. But we did see the price drop considerably shortly after.

There were NO weapons of mass destruction found.

The BUSH family has had ties to the oil industry for MANY, MANY years.

A lot of money and arms came for AMERICA that helped support their war against Kuwait. (We were told it was for another purpose. But, yes, we did supply them with the tools.)

Coincidence that we go to war with the middle east each time a Bush was in office?

You decide. I don't buy. In the investigation world. There are no coincidences.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 4:06 pm EST

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Your letter is a good example of why liberals are considered a noxious vermin plague that is infecting our country. IQ??? It is to laugh. It was proven that liberals have a low IQ when the issue of the Florida butterfly ballot came out. Tens of thousands of liberals to include their lowlife leaders complained that the ballot was too difficult to understand and too hard to use. The liberal stench complained that the ballot was too confusing. Jesse Jerkson complained too. The ballot was written on a level to high for liberals to understand.
Not one single complaint about the very same ballot came from any conservative.
This is only one bit of proof that liberals are morons.
Why do liberals win elections? They are supported by drunks, druggies, criminals, and other non-productive members of society.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 3:05 pm EST

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Typical liberal response SC boy. Don't let the press publish anything that isn't in line with twisted liberal thinking. That's the best you can do?? Very sad.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 1:36 pm EST

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Rutland Herald editor: Can you please put us all out of our misery and take this letter down?
-- Posted by SC Boy on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 1:31 pm EST

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We need to do a national study to see why liberals are so whacked in the head.
We need to:
1) Find out what percentage of liberals spent too much time under power lines.
2) Find out how many lead paint chips liberals ingested when they were kids.
3) Find out how many liberal's family trees resemble wreaths.
4) Find out what percentage of liberals had traumatic brain injuries as kids.
5) Find out what defective gene results in liberalism.
6) Check the carbon monoxide detectors in liberals homes to see if a carbon monoxide leak is what causes their hallucinations, delusions, and other mental issues.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 12:24 pm EST

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Firedog,
You are correct that everyone who serves in the military is vital to the country's military success. You are wrong however in your assumption that everyone in the military is an Iraqi expert. The FACT is, that if you were not actually in Iraq, you do not have a clue as to what actually goes on over there.
By the way, I was over there in the Quick Reaction Force, a Scout, and had an M1 MOS as well. I had 26 years in. My last Iraq tour was my third tour in a combat zone.
Again, Yes there were liberals over there. If they or anyone else who actually served in Iraq has anything to say, pro or con, it is valid and has merit. Anyone who opens their pie hole about Iraq and was never there, has no idea what they are spewing...not a clue.
Thank you for your 4 years of service, but you do not have a clue about Iraq.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 12:16 pm EST

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wow CF, you are willing to bash anyone in the US ilitary huh? Supply sergents are actually a vital part of that military organization. Shows your ignorance. Also shows how partisan you are by continuing to bash liberals. And no, i was not in supply at all... once again... man this is fun.. you are WRONG! so tell me CF, what did you do for the military? you even have the balls to serve? and just because one is not on front line, it makes their service any less? really? wow... you are impressive in your ignorance!
And as far as the democratic party goes... NN, for once you and i agree. That party is every bit as corrupt as the republicans...sadly, not a one of them are not bought or sold by one corperation or special interest group. The only way to get elected is to be in someones pocket.
-- Posted by firedog on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:57 pm EST

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None, you need to get help for your intellectual, emotional, and cognizant disconnects. Please don't waste my time. You ask questions about things you have just been provider answers and your rants are utterly off the subject. Perhaps it is a substance problem too.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:12 pm EST

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I see the man from La La Land, alias None None is up to his normal ranting, it's amazing how someone can be so one sided and blinded by party politics. Everything Bush did was right, everything Obama does is wrong, how can anyone be such an idiot. And the inane insistance that Obame is not an American when everyone who matters has admitted the opposite. Well the Man from la La Land proves in every one of his post how stupid he can be.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:12 pm EST

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Is this the same None None who was crying foul just a few short weeks ago when President Obama was initiating talks with Iran?
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:47 pm EST

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Juliet

No! you are still talking HIND SIGHT and speaking as if everyone had a Crystal Ball that was flawless in its predictions.

You make it sound so easy that someone in JAX would be able to add what was happening in Florida to what might happen in Boston to what might happen at the border in Vermont to what might happen to what buildings and where?

Ther ehad not been a Hihjacking in years, so why would anyone have their suspicions rattled? The last attack on the WTC was in 93 and it was bomb on the ground floor and from a vehicle so why would someone think anyone would be insane enough to hihjack a Commerical Airliner and fly it into a tall building? WHo would have thought that, Juliet? Please who? Who would hav ebeen able to gather information from the FBI who worked seperately from the CIA who worked seperately from the local Police who had no need to communicate with ATC or FAA or Flight Schools in Florida, WHO, Juliet? You seem to think it was all there, in big bold letters for any fool to see? Well then why didn't YOU warn us all?

You need to not worry about what has happened in the past but yoou need to start worrying about NOW and how the Man from Kenya is going to deal with Iran, North Korea and Cuba, how is he going to disarm them and get them to the tables? Thru Hillary? ROFLMAO. We are getting very close to where we were back in the early 60s when that Nuke Button was almost pressed during the Cuban Missle Crisis, except now, dear Juliet we are talking about weapons that are almost 50 years more advanced and leaders who are stealing elections and who have a strong desire to KILL US. So what do you think the Man from kenya should be doing? Should he be using some of this Crystla Ball stuff you refer to to prevent thhe Big Boom from happening or should he continue to be apoligizing for U.S. actions over th eyears to the Muslim Nations? Why haven't we heard anything about what he is going to do about North Korea or Iran? Why/ I'll tell you why, because not a single jerk in his Flying Circus has a CLUE what to do and you may have a very limited future so if you want to spend it complaining about Bush and the pst, go for it, but I think I would want to know how we are going to handle the threats that are growing by each day that will lead us into a NUCLEAR WAR and that is more close than you realize.

Got any answers? We don't have any Hind Sight to judge, just daily headllines to warn us and yet I hear NOTHING from Washington. So there is your real and current threat, Juliet and what is being done other than a short four word comment by Hillary? Bette rget your Fall Out shelter dug, you may be needing it very soon.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 7:05 pm EST

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This is not hindsight...this is history lesson. For more than a decade preceding 911, airline personnel were regularly reporting weak airport security and asking the FAA, Congress and anyone else who would listen to improve it. It was a tragedy waiting to happen and the workers warned them. The warnings were disregarded largely for two reasons, cost and the fear of inconveniencing or frightening the public that might reflect badly on the airlines and hurt business. (I guess we are all inconvenienced and frightened enough now, eh?) The executives and the FAA knew something awful might happen, but it was a calculated risk they were willing to take. I recommend you read "Flying Safe, Flying Blind" by Mary Schiavo a former FAA Director (a Reagan appointee I believe)to learn more about how the industry is in bed with the FAA regulators and how it puts lives at risk.
As for who knew what, does the name Coleen M. Rowley, FBI Special Agent and Minneapolis Chief Division Counsel, ring a bell? She had a bead on the plot months before and was ignored by the FBI management in DC. More to the point, intelligence agencies certainly did conceive of the 911 type of event, and yet they still took the calculated risks with security at airports. And that is not a partisan commentary, that is a commentary of the corrupting effect on money, politics, and public policy.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:46 pm EST

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Well it seems the leader of the Liberal Whackos has spoken. All one of his brain cells hard at working trying to muster an intelligent thought. ROFLMAO and to think he called everyone else a name.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:03 pm EST

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Hey Chuck,

Since you've seen so many events and elections in your life.....

die already, you bush-loving-******-bag, and the 45,999,999 other f-knutz
-- Posted by Lee Galizeit on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 5:24 pm EST

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Airport screening? Whey they have that new Scanner that makes you appear naked as you walk by it. People want security, they want prevention by they do not want their lives affected or their privacy invaded, so tell me what is this SIMPLE SCREENING you are refering to? Please give me the details how you would find who these people were unless the info was passed from agency to agency and there was even reason to pass info and how many tons of this information is passe deach day and WHO is going to sit and determine which info is more critical than other info? Who is going to be 110% day after day after day to be sure that your little perky butt is always well protected while you sit at your pc finding fault with everything but your dreams and your fantasies?
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 4:54 pm EST

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Juliet

All you are good at is tearing apart Hind Sight.

I would lik eto know what you do for work and I am sure I can find plenty wrong with your performance. It is easy to sit here with the pieces of the puzzle laid out in front of us and put it all back together, now that we have seen it together. The variables were just too infinite but in a Liberal Logic Doctors are able to cure everything annd the Government is able to soolve all the problems and have wars with no casualties. Great, Juliet you need to wake up to reality and maybe work for the agencies that you so quickly find fault with and maybe show them how to do it right. ROFLMAO you are all TALK.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 4:44 pm EST

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None as usual you are over the top. I am talking about simple airport screening at the gate. Literally for years, flight crews and other staff were recommending that the security screening (which had alarmingly deteriorated after the airline companies farmed the work out to sub-contractors)could have foiled the hijackers. But oh no, deregulation of the industry and cost cutting despite safety concerns, were the rage. You heard from Capt Sullenberger of the Hudson River ditching...highly trained, competent staff are worth every penny in a crunch. That applies across the board. Why are we the people now paying big bucks for airport screeners through a federal agency? Because the profit motive for some functions puts peoples lives at risk. Do you get that yet?
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 3:25 pm EST

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Juliet

So you believe in Big Brother should be in our faces?

Afterall ho welse would they have a clue to be able to put the Puzzle together. Flight Classes in Florida, Highjack Planes in Boston, enter across border maybe even through Vermont. I can see where you want all of info passed through ALL agencies to process as they so desire. Wasn't it the Democrats who fougght tooth and nail to eliminate the Patriot Act because that was too invasive or how about the Wiretapping that would give a clear and precise heads up?

Now how do you Liberals expect to have it both ways and who is your THEY and who is your WE?
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 3:16 pm EST

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Here is the bigger conspiracy theory that is not often acknowledged...our government is so influenced by corporate and monied interests that it puts citizens at risk by policies rigged against them. In everything from the lack of regulation that is at the root of the economic disaster we are in now, to the airport security on the cheap (outsourced,low-wage workers with little to no training ) that was so lax and routinely asleep at the switch it allowed the 911 hijackers to get through. There's a pattern here. Each time the private sector, free market fails, we the people have to pay the price and step-in to correct the deficiencies. They pollute, we pay; they poisin us, or kill us with their defective products or services; we pay; and when their greed and recklessness takes our life savings and puts the entire world financial system at risk; you guessed it, we pay. Poor people aren't the problem, corporate welfare is the problem along with the scales of justice tipped in their favor. We the people are starting to get this and the corporatists are screaming like stuck pigs against regulations, reforms, and limitations on their power and profit. It's about time. That has been the conspiracy and it isn't rooted in wild ideas and theories, it is on the pages of our newspapers every damn day. You just need to read it!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 2:11 pm EST

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David

I totally Agree, he knows just enough to make himself dangerous to himself. LOL Now if he would just read the rest of the book.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 11:38 am EST

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Haha David,

Nah... I don't need medication.

Gotta love a good conspiracy theory though. XD

There are just many unanswered questions.

We would love to believe our Government would never do such things. But we know they do. We have done Terrorists acts. We know this for fact. We are terrorists. We do assassinate people. Why?

Because we believe what we do is for the greater good. Just as they do.

This is just Reality.. posing questions.

We are hypocrites. We do what we FORCE others not to do.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:30 am EST

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In the end..

I was trying to prove to Danny that I am Bipartisan.

Both parties are corrupt and are willing to sacrifice people for what they believe is a greater good.

Unfortunately, they may be correct considering the enemies they have surfaced.

I'm not Antigovernment or Antiamerican. I'm just like any of you searching for the truth. Sometimes it's just so easy to see it.

1) They got public oppinion turned the way they wanted it to do their deed.

2) All they had to show was incompetence as a weakness in our Government Agencies. As a reason it occurred.

3) In the end.... It's Win(Public Oppinon), Win(More money to support Govt. Agencies to counter their incompetence), Win(They are able to fulfill their agenda) situation.

Is it so hard to believe?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:24 am EST

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Wow, just WOW! CF....Not only do you respond to yourself...multiple times...you are a conspiracy theorist and obviously off your meds...and for the record I haven't agreed with one single thing you have said.
-- Posted by David Randall on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 9:23 am EST

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WE WERE AT ANCHOR.

WE KNEW THERE WAS A THREAT HOURS BEFOREHAND.

WE KNEW AND DID NOTHING UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE!

It's not coincidence. If you think it is... you are sorely mistaken and you can't fathom the kind of decisions our Government needs to make. I'm glad I don't need to make those decisions. I could never live with myself.

I'm not condoning what they did. But I understand why it was done. Truth hurts sometimes.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:43 am EST

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That's right None None,

You have been trained well. You stay loyal and ignorant.

The truth is to easy to see.

We know there is a threat.. but we just leave ourselves wide open for the attack?

Sorry, I'll never buy it.

Sometimes you need to lose money to gain money.

Sometimes you need chaos to bring people together.


Think about it!

If we readied our Navy, since there was a threat. And if our MILITARY was ready, since there was a threat. We wouldn't have suffered so greatly at Pearl Harbor. If we did well. American public may not even feel that we need to expand our military.

Think about it..... Where would that have left us. When our Government knew they needed to, to win that war.

Sometimes sacrifice is needed for the greater good.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:38 am EST

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As any investigator you know.

90 times out of 100. What does coincidence mean?

It's true today as it was true yesterday!
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:21 am EST

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None None,

It's common knowledge.

And most schools and teachers teach this truth to their students.

You didn't know?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:18 am EST

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Who cares?

Sorry, None None.

Didn't you know....

The only true American are the indians? This is their soil. This is their land. WE ARE ALL IMPORTS. WE ALL CAME FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

So, I guess, even if that is true. What would it matter?

Truth =

Indians are the only true natives. And believe it or not. If 5 or more of them are walking down the street, in some states, you are still allowed to open fire and kill them all. (You could assume they are a WAR party.)

I'm not lying. Check out the facts. Indians are the only true natives. And this is how they are treated. Why do you think they have reservations? They have their own land. Their own laws. But are still subject to racism and violence while "WE" are protected by our laws.

Truth!
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:17 am EST

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CF Reality

You are nuttier than a fruit Cake, you have twisted memories of what happened and your reference to the History of Pearl Harbor is about as lame as you can get. You need to do a lot more research and quite trying to fill your memory voids with assumptions and wild claims. ROFLMAO
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:15 am EST

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http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-161263
"Hawaiian law most definitely allows foreign births to have a certificate filed"
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
"Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii."
"A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing.
it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents."
"Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
"Obama traveled to Pakistan in 81 with an Indonesian passport.
Prior to 2007, Indonesian law did not permit dual citizenship. Thus, if Obama actively kept his Indonesian citizenship, his US citizenship could be challenged."
http://stop-obama.info/barack_obama_015.htm
"Even Kenya's ambassador to the United States, Rateng Oginga Ogego stated Obama was born in Kenya. Obama's Kenya grandmother stated she was at the hospital in Kenya when Obama was born. "
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2141909/posts
Links to many Hospitals in Hawaii and verification from hospitals that neither his mom or him were ever there. Phone numbers so you can call for yourself or just go to their links.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:08 am EST

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And now more horrible truth, history, and theory.

You assume I am not bipartisan.

Democrat Franklin Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor. Horrible history, truth, and theory about his reign.

He is remembered as one of the 3 best presidents that we have had.

Don't you think that is strange since it is common knowledge that Pearl Harbor was left open for attack on purpose. To gain public oppinion! Don't you find that odd? Yes, he did many great things. But he was willing to sacrifice military and innocent life for our Government's cause.

If you look at his history. As, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, FDR was supposed to demobilize our Navy. He was very fond of our Navy and put it off for 2 years. He resigned before carrying out the order.

Later, he became President.

I was taught that our Government turned their back on Pearl Harbor. Which is 100 percent truth. All of the information that came in points to this truth. The fact we didn't prepare or give warning until after the attack started is 100 percent proof.

Our Government saw the German threat and knew they needed to get involved before Germany was on our soil. Our Government allowed the attack to take place for public oppinion. Our Government allowed military, navy, and innocent lives to die so that Americans would be angry enough to want revenge. And so that the American public would be ready and willing to go to war.


Doesn't any of this sound familiar?



1) The terrorists that flew into the twin towers were known to be in America. Nothing was done. They could have been easily deported. They were on our Top priority list. And they were just left to do their work? Seriously?

2) The terrorists were trained by Americans to fly Jet Airliners, on American soil. Not only is this disturbing. It's creepy. Our Government allowed it.

3) 3-4 Planes were taken over by these men. NOT ONE MAN was stopped from boarding these flights. KNOWN TERRORISTS having 0 resistance from flights? After we KNOW they are in America and training to fly these planes!!!



People... We knew they were here. We were watching them. We could have stopped them. We didn't. We had ALL the time in the world to prevent this. We didn't. Why?


Our Government was willing to sacrifice innocent life and military for public oppinion, previously. You think it's so hard to believe they wouldn't now?

Do you really think this was all coincidence?


I don't buy it.

Freemasonry = Runs this world. Believe it!!! They got the power, the money, and the means. Every great President that we have had was a member. Coincidence?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:02 am EST

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Smart Thinking: I guess I owe you an apology. My post to Comfy was not in reference to you, but to one of your soul mates on the board. It's merely an apology, though, not any kind of implication that I agree with anything you have ever thought or said.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 8:00 am EST

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Smart thinking,

Meh.. nevermind. You are to far out of touch. There is no need to comment.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:59 am EST

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David,

I guess I'm confused. You go on against me. But then say what I'm saying is truth! What is that about?

I am bipartisan. But what I can't stand more than liberals are the extreme GOP's that comment here. That is the truth. Can't stand 'em. They are GOP fans, like a fan for a sports team. No matter what they do or don't do. They stay loyal. They can destroy our welfare on a regular basis but they will never accept the truth. Something is wrong with that. This is politics, our welfare, our people, and our future. Not a game!

You guys already say he ruined the country. He didn't. He came into office when the country was already in ruin. It will be time before we see what he DOES or DOESN'T accomplish. That's all I'm saying. And that is the REALITY!

But the extreme GOP's will continue to go against the president in every way they can.

I'm afraid even the GOP fathers, some of the really wealthy, are willing to sacrifice themselves for awhile to try and get some public oppinion for the GOP's.

The way our economics work. If a majority of the rich are only trading a fraction of what they normally do. We will all be impacted by it. The market is full of day trading at this time. It doesn't really have the long-term investor interested. That's what is killing the world market. The money comes in and goes out. It doesn't stay for the long-term.

People, without a rhyme or reason, can inadvertently destroy the market. It's more sensitive than some people understand. Big trades, dumps of stock, can lead to mass hysteria and the market can crash without a true reason. Other than a "mistake".

But was this a mistake?

I'd like to think so but I've learned how our system works.

Like right now.. N.Korea is all over the news. They are showing us all of "The Dirty" that they are responsible for. Over and over they will continue to show us everything that is WRONG with that country.

Why?

Public oppinion. They are trying to convince us of something. Our Government and the pentagon will keep leaking horrible information about this country until they are happy with how the public feels about this country.

Until we are willing to go to war?

Until we are willing to send a secret mission to rescue the journalists and assassinate their Government?

Not sure..

This is just reality. This is how our Government works.

1) Threat comes in.

2) Decide if this can be accomplished covertly or with our military.

3a) If they want to do it covertly. They try not to bring any attention to the area. The media may even not know about it.. Ever.. It may only be speculation, heresay, and/or rumor.

3b) If they need/want military support. They start leaking information to the media. (Let's be serious. N.Korea is a country that has focused on it's military at an insane percentage. They put a higher percentage of their finances into their military than any other government. This is what we are led to believe. Some of "The Dirt" is true. Some of it may not be.)

4) Once the public is on the side of the Government. Then they put together some deal for Congress, and then the UN, to support WAR.

5) As we've seen previously. It doesn't matter anymore if the UN or the world favors our decision or not. We will attempt WAR on our own.


What I want to know is.......


How are we much different than terrorists?

We bomb threats. We take innocent life. We justify our action. We pray. We may be religious.

Yes, we don't go walking into a building with a bomb strapped to us and blow ourselves up. But we are willing to do the same damage without sacrificing ourselves. We are willing to kill the same amount of people and innocent people to PROTECT OUR BELIEF.

And what is that?

That we are right? Everyone else is wrong? Is it wrong for them to feel the same way? Really?

Personally, I feel we let some little, rich, scared men into office. They have written a ton of horrible history. And now we will see some suffering from their sins.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:57 am EST

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SC Boy's post>>>Comfy: Re the poster in question: It was long ago established that he is a racist...and a sexist, and a homophobe, and disrespectful of his commander-in-chief. Now he simply re-confirms it pretty much on a daily basis.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 5:05 am EST <<
This is another example of the feeble twisted liberal mind. Racist??? You have to be kidding. Moronic liberals need 1) An English lesson with true definitions of everyday words. 2) A reality check. 3) A brain.
Liberals want respect for "Commander in Chief Obama"? That's a laugh. Liberals NEVER had ANY respect for ANY "Commander in Chief", unless it was another twisted liberal.
"Homophobe"??? Phobia is a fear. Why would you think I am in fear of homosexuals? SC Boy, you are warped. Liberals are warped
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:52 am EST

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http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-161263
"Hawaiian law most definitely allows foreign births to have a certificate filed"
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
"Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii."
"A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing.
it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents."
"Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
"Obama traveled to Pakistan in 81 with an Indonesian passport.
Prior to 2007, Indonesian law did not permit dual citizenship. Thus, if Obama actively kept his Indonesian citizenship, his US citizenship could be challenged."
http://stop-obama.info/barack_obama_015.htm
"Even Kenya's ambassador to the United States, Rateng Oginga Ogego stated Obama was born in Kenya. Obama's Kenya grandmother stated she was at the hospital in Kenya when Obama was born. "
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2141909/posts
Links to many Hospitals in Hawaii and verification from hospitals that neither his mom or him were ever there. Phone numbers so you can call for yourself or just go to their links.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:49 am EST

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Comfy, Without the spin and incorrect statements, liberals have nothing to say. Stating where a person comes from has nothing what so ever with racism. Why are the liberal minds so very feeble? How does a warped liberal mind figure that stating where someone comes from is racist? Liberals are morons. Liberals are the true racists. Stating the fact that Obama comes from Kenya has zero to do with color or race. It is the liberal racist mind that put color and race into the equation. Why do liberals twist and skew everything? It's because they have absolutely nothing intelligent to argue with.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 6:46 am EST

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Comfy: Re the poster in question: It was long ago established that he is a racist...and a sexist, and a homophobe, and disrespectful of his commander-in-chief. Now he simply re-confirms it pretty much on a daily basis.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 5:05 am EST

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Calling President Obama the man from Kenya absolutely is racist. It is also inaccurate, but very much in keeping with what we have come to expect from "smart thinking".
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 4:36 am EST

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-- Posted by Juliet Chien>>> Not "smart thinking" ...you don't know whether I am a he or she or Mr or Mrs or a Ms. Your Comments...Pathetic."

Ok wise lady, How many guys are named "Juliet"???? Also, The Rutland area is very small. Yes you are a "Mrs." Married to the "Mr. Chien".
Your thinking and your politics are pathetic.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 11:40 pm EST

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http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-161263
"Hawaiian law most definitely allows foreign births to have a certificate filed"
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
"Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii."
"A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing.
it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents."
"Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause."
-- Posted by None None on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 7:30 pm EST

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http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-161263
"Hawaiian law most definitely allows foreign births to have a certificate filed"
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
"Hawaii happens to issue birth certificates for babies born outside Hawaii."
"A birth announcement in a newspaper means nothing.
it is fairly common to run such announcements for babies born outside the area of the announcement or even the US. Proud grandparents, for example, could have run the announcement just to let people know they are now grandparents."
"Multiple witnesses say Obama was born outside the US, that his father was not a US citizen and his mother was a minor. If those are the facts, he was not "natural born" per the laws in place at the time. Other cases have advanced different arguments challenging Obama's eligibility under the natural born citizen clause."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
"Obama traveled to Pakistan in 81 with an Indonesian passport.
Prior to 2007, Indonesian law did not permit dual citizenship. Thus, if Obama actively kept his Indonesian citizenship, his US citizenship could be challenged."
http://stop-obama.info/barack_obama_015.htm
"Even Kenya's ambassador to the United States, Rateng Oginga Ogego stated Obama was born in Kenya. Obama's Kenya grandmother stated she was at the hospital in Kenya when Obama was born. "
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2141909/posts
Links to many Hospitals in Hawaii and verification from hospitals that neither his mom or him were ever there. Phone numbers so you can call for yourself or just go to their links.
-- Posted by None None on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 7:22 pm EST

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"Calling Obama the man from Kenya and unqualified is veiled racism."


WoW! is there a NEW meaning for Racism now?

I can give you many reasons why I do not like the MAN FROM KENYA and believe me you poor little fool, race is NOT any of them.

Chester McArthur was born in Canada and therefore served as President of the U.S. as a Canadian Citizen and not as an American. He did so because he was not challenged.

The Man from Kenya's father was a British Citizen and his Mother was an American Citizen and that is a FACT. The U.S. Constitution has the Natural Born Citizen Clause in it due to British Citizens married to parents born here. If you read the Constitution it refers to British quite often and the case with the Man from Kenya is exactly why the clause was written. Unlike President Bush who published all of his Military Records for reasons not related to his qualifications to be President, the Man from Kenya has disregarded the requests. His own Grandmother as well as other memebers of his family say they were there in Kenya when he was born. Why does a Hospital in Kenya claim he was born there and TWO hospitals in Hawaii? Why is a so complex answer for such a very simple question?

There is no racism in referring to him as the Man from Kenya an dif that bothers, too bad, he needs to prove he is qualified to be President. He has not and he has acknowledged that the Birth Certificate that was posted, way back was a fraud. Yet he has not offered to produce an authentic one. why? Democrats afraid they may lose the W.H.? No! Biden would not become President if they find he was not qualified to run in the first place, it would be a mess and is that why they ignore the requests or refuse to hear the cases?

Let's all live by Juliet standards where everything is accpeted, right or worng, accept it. ROFLMAO No wonder the Liberals are referred to as Whackos.

Look at the Top Lawyer for the Army for the latest corruption of the Man from Kenya Flying Circus, this lawyer neglected to state that Fannie Mae was his prior job and said it was a mistake he didn't mention it on his papers. LOL WOW! how many times have we heard that in the last 6 months?

You people have no room to judge Rush or the Republican Party until you clean up your own. The Democratis Party use to be a party to be proud of, it lost that when Ted Kennedy kept getting re elected after his crime. Instead of sweepng the dirt under your rugs, do a thorough cleaning and maybe someone will listen to you, until then you all belong to a very corrupt party. Try and listen to Nancy Pelosi speak and tell me if she has more than two brain cells. ROFLMAO or try an dlisten to Biden, now there is a real winner for you, talk about a guy who has his foot in his mouth more than on the floor. Or Barb Boxer, or Diane Feinstein, or Byrd, or Howard Dean and on and on.
-- Posted by None None on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 6:25 pm EST

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Not "smart thinking" ...you don't know whether I am a he or she or Mr or Mrs or a Ms. Your Comments...Pathetic.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 4:42 pm EST

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Feeble liberal spew. Mrs Chien, Announcing the fact that someone is not qualified has zero to do with racism. Announcing that Obama was born in Kanya has nothing to do with racism. How do twisted liberal minds come up with this garbage? By the way Mrs Chien, Obama has done more damage to our country and wasted more money in than any other president in the history of the United States. He did it within his first 100 days. He is even worse than Clinton. It has zero to do with racism. Racism is a card that liberals pull when they can not come up with any intelligent argument.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 4:22 pm EST

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Calling Obama the man from Kenya and unqualified is veiled racism. The whole birth certificate controversy is a delusion brought to you by the usual nutjobs. The birth was announced in the 1961 Honolulu newspaper, the certificate has a seal and a signature, and has been examined, verified, and confirmed by experts and Hawaii state officials and others. Enough already, I wasn't born in a pumpkin patch!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 2:50 pm EST

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Citizens serve the country in many ways and it should all be valued, including those who were sent to serve in every other insane conflict fed by lies or idealogical perversity post-World War II. And as every soldier,sailor or maine on the frontline understands, there better be the other 95% of organization backing them up or there won't be anyone there when they run out of ammunition!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 2:32 pm EST

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Fire Dog,
I commend you for your service as a stateside rear echelon army assistant supply clerk for your 4 years. I am sure you did your job to the fullest of your ability, and may have even gotten a bronze start for fixing an out of service paperclip dispenser or something.
The fact is, that if you have not served in Iraq, you have no basis for any type of constructive comments about Iraq. Yes, there were liberals who served along side of me in Iraq. If they have a comment, either pro or con, it will be from experience and will have merit.
The CNN (Communist New Network)watchers, and the anti-everything liberals who sit at home and spew their garbage are ignorant morons. They do not have a clue.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 2:13 pm EST

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CF Reality (CF Hilarity), Where in my post did your feeble little liberal brain read anything about Rush???? I do not watch Rush, nor do I listen to him on the radio.
And by the way....Liberals are a destructive plague that has infested our country. Your Obama has ruined our country in record time, faster than Jimmy Carter, or Bill Clintoon.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 2:03 pm EST

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Juliet,
While i may not like what rush, billy-o and even what Bill Mahr, or some of those on this forum say, i would lay down my life to defend their right to say it. One of the biggest problems with this country is that we have forgotten. We forgot that yes, we have all these wonderful rights and freedoms, but we also have duties to our country to support those rights. Some serve in the military, we have all done our jury duty, and most of us pay taxes. We also must get back to treating eachother with respect. Our founding fathers were of many different political philosophies, yet they created this country. If we forget that it took the far left, far right and all those inbetween to create this country, it will not survive. Liberals, Conservatives and others are important for balance, to keep the country going. while you may not agree with this administration or that administration, one steers too far left, the next steers too far right, and we continue straight ahead. thats how our country was founded, and thats how it will continue to work.
-- Posted by firedog on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 1:55 pm EST

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J.Chien,
Stating that your hero Obama is a man from Kenya has nothing to do with racism. You are putting the typical liberals spin on comments made. The comment about Obama being born in Kenya is about him not being qualified to be president because he was not born in the US. He can't produce a legitimate US birth certificate because one does not exist.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 1:54 pm EST

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Thanks to the rational, thoughtful members of the group here; it is nice to be among you even when we don't totally agree. While it seems fruitless and annoying at times, it is important to stay with it. Even if the usual boneheads don't get it, others on the sidelines might. They need to know that there are multiple viewpoints.

I don't think I can contribute anything more to the original topic that hasn't already been stated, but I do think I've about had it with the "man from Kenya" line. The contemptous tone and obvious racism is sickening. It is particularly disgusting in light of the recent headlines and actions (Dr. Tiller, the Holocaust Museum murder) insighted by people of that sort...Bill O'Reilly and the rest of that crowd of incendiaries. They think they have the right of free speech and they are great patriots, but they are nothing but a disgrace to every decent idea and ideal that this country represents. Noney needs remedial Civics 101.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 1:03 pm EST

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wow, liberals are the only ones who excell at twisting the truth? really? are you that ignorant, or are you just that blind. neither party is known for truth. wake up, get rush and limbaugh out of your head. the sooner we stop going party line the quicker we fix our country. Sadly, Regan did not "fix" this country, he put us on the road we are on, with his deficit spending. "Running a deficit does not hurt the economy in the short term." well folks, short term is over. Bush, Bush, Regan and now Obama ran nothing but deficits, even clinton to an extent.
Oh, and smart thinking, there are many liberals who did step foot in war zones. Not only repubs are willing to serve their countries. I myself did 4 years in the army, so go ahead, tell me to shut my mouth again.... I fought to have my freedom of speech... try to take it away. go ahead, please, try.
-- Posted by firedog on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 11:45 am EST

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CF "out of touch with" Reality says "When he was in office for only 30 days, 60 days, and 90 days. Many Republican based networks already put all the blame on him. They put the whole world's economic trouble into his lap. Claiming it as his fault."

Here's a question for you CF...name ONE Republican based network besides Fox. ....Jeopardy Theme...."crickets"....Jeopardy Theme...."crickets".....

Doing what most liberals do best...manipulate and twist the truth....and don't kid yourself you are NOT as bipartisan as you think you are...none of us are but most of us at least can admit it.

One other thing you suggest...that it is WAR WAR WAR that Bush was concerned with, maybe it was keeping your retarded ass safe...hmmmmm.
-- Posted by David Randall on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 10:48 am EST

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Yah, keep the Bush bashing going. There will be a time when Obama will get his bashing as well. I lived in Chicago for several years and believe me, those who voted for Obama have been duped. Chicago politics are as dirty as politics can be and to rise up in that cesspool, you gotta be bad! Too bad we keep getting the worse to choose from.
-- Posted by bud kafer Jr. on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 10:35 am EST

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LOL....

This Smart Thinking guy is hilarious. Sounds like Rush Limbaugh Jr... LOL.. Rush is not known for truth. He is PAID to confuse the public, breed hate, and hopefully destroy ALL parties except for the Republicans. Now you think these conservatives would have learned from Religion and Church. That it doesn't work. But they still try. They don't care if they repeat history. They just want what they want. Power, control, and money!

I'm guessing "Smart Thinking" set foot in Iraq. So he think's he's the smart one. He thinks he knows ALL!!!! LOL. Yeah, this guy is on crack.. lol.

"Liberals are a nasty plague...." Seriously?

Personally, I think people like you are the plague of society. I'm able to see the good and bad in Republicans, Democrats, and Liberals. You are not capable. You only agree with your party. You are the past. You are a dieing breed. Your ship is sinking.

And I must say.... Thank God!
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 6:51 am EST

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Fire Dog:

We can only give thanks that the dittohead "know nothing" wing of the GOP is out of power, and under the leadership of Limbaugh and fellow travelers, they are destined to be out of power for a long, long time. A 30% hard core is still only 30%, and 30% wins no national elections.
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 6:37 am EST

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Chuck,

Once Obama is in office long enough to see results from his actions. Then he will be in position to take responsibility for them.

When he was in office for only 30 days, 60 days, and 90 days. Many Republican based networks already put all the blame on him. They put the whole world's economic trouble into his lap. Claiming it as his fault.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with what he's doing or that I disagree'd 100% with Bush. I'm just saying....

Until he's given a chance and until enough time passes to see results. You can't blame him for *everything*.

One thing that is certain. Bush didn't care for economics. He put very, very little effort toward it. He was focused on WAR, spending money on the WAR, and everything else that dealt with WAR. That was his priority.

This isn't bashing. This is reality. This is truth.

The man in charge for the past 8 years had more impact on today's economics than someone that has been in office for 30days, 60days, 90days, and to present.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 6:15 am EST

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Ray Makul, Like most liberals you have your head implanted way inside of your rectal orifice. Carter ruined the country, Reagan fixed it. Clintoon ruined the country, Bush fixed it. Now your low IQ Kenya born Obama has destroyed our country in his first 6 months in office.
Somewhere in Kenya, they are missing their village idiot.
Also, for you mush minded liberals who have never even set foot in Iraq, you need to keep your ignorant pie holes shut. You do not have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about. Your CNN (communist news network) is fiction at best. Unless you were there, boots on ground, you don't have a clue.
Liberals are a nasty plague that is infecting our country.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 12:15 am EST

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While you are all debating who and what went wrong, I have noticed that none of you have any constructive suggestions as to how to get us back on track. All the blubbering. Is it a smoke screen? Are we just fiddling while Rome burns. Shouldn't we just forget about Bush et al. Shouldn't more attention be given to what the current president is doing? Just a thought
-- Posted by Shy Wreath on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 11:54 pm EST

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meh, i just like to see him get riled up. try to throw some insults around. he does a poor job of it, but its fun to get him started.
-- Posted by firedog on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 6:04 pm EST

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Ray Makul and firedog: I tried to warn you. Now you are getting schooled first hand by the master prevaricator. Facts won't matter. Truth won't matter. Give it your best shot if you must, but prepare to get dizzy.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 5:44 pm EST

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talk about flashes of ignorance NN. you are a bounty of it. Lets go line by line shall we, because it seems your reading comprehension is a bit off. Waterboarding IS torture. It is defined not jsut by the Hague and geneva conventions, but also by US law. as i said, we have tried, convicted AND sentenced foreign troops and officers for the crime of torture, using waterboarding. How again is this not a crime? oh, because the president said it wasnt? well, didnt work with nixon either there skippy.
We arent at war in Iraq? really? tell that to both bush and chainey. I was using their words there. once again... wrong.
The top 1% control over 95% of the money, hence they pay over 95% of the taxes. seems like simple math there. You following? wrong again!
The quote from bush.. again, and actually read it this time: "No one could have conceivably imagined suicide bombers burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly their aircraft--fly US aircraft--into buildings full of innocent people."
that did not say anything about specific targets. it said the plan was unforseen. and it was forseen, and in fact similar plans were halted in other countries. EG. a lie on bushes part. wow, you really make this too easy!!! WRONG AGAIN!
The missile defence system is not operational. Bushes quote.. again, read it this time We're not going to deploy a [missile defense] system that doesn't work." again... a lie you are again... guess what? wrong!
and thank you again for the personal attacks. once again, shows your own ignorance. you have yet to be able to read a post on this site and argue any point specificially without insults or childish remarks. sad... maybe one day you will grow up and be able to have an adult conversation.
-- Posted by firedog on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 5:26 pm EST

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Sorry, None None.

Congress never had a declaration of war against Iraq. Rather, they authorized Bush to take measured action and the idiot used it to declare war.

You need to learn your Constitution, only the President is the Commander in Chief and can deploy our forces. And it is your argument that Congress is at fault because it gave some deference to the liar Bush.

And when I point out that the endless lies about Iraq having an involvement in 9-11 were proven to have no basis by the 9-11 commission, your response is to dismiss the Commission. That's no response at all. He was proven to be telling lies, and continued to tell lies even after it was determined there was nothing to support those statements.

I guess you think Republican Governor Tom Kean, who headed that Commission, is a flyweight?
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 5:15 pm EST

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Sorry Ray

WRONG!

77 U.S. Senators supported going after Saddam. Not a Bush deal. You are way off. Poor Try.

As far as claiming as you say. That was all based on the same Intel that Bill Clinton acted on.

You must be able to do better than that. Both of your song and dances are old and worn out.

The 9 11 Commission was a joke but still, acting Intel. How would you or anyone else know where they got their money? They are dead and dead people don't talk.


Firedog

Water boarding was not Torture and either is stripping a Terrorist. Those actions WERE in the best interest of the country and saved American Lives, but I forget, Liberals only care about enemy lives.

As far as the Geneva Convention, it does not protect anyone not serving a flag or country, nor does it serve a non uniformed Army. No! Firedog they are terrorist and they are NOT protected by the Geneva Convention. That argument was brought up years ago, but you must have been asleep. As far as caring whether YOU care or not, no one does. Results are what is needed to save lives, quit trying to act like a Holy Roller and preaching your Glory. LOL


No! we are not at war with Iraq. You need to listen and learn and not always talk. Iraq was set free when Saddam was captured. We have control of every single city and there only a few Hot spots left. All Major Combat Operations are over and Iraq is fighting along with us. Before we were fighting Iraq's Army and now with Saddam gone, Iraq fights with us to finish sweeping the terrorist out of their country. We have help them to form a Police force and an Army and under those protections they were able to create a Government of their own and add another block of democracy to the Middle East. President Bush was correct in his statement, you are wrong in the understanding of it.

You got your tax breaks and they got theirs, but the Top 1% pay over 95% of all the taxes, so of course when you talk about dollars, they saved more. When you talk about percentage it was all pretty much equal. What is the percentage that you pay at the end of the year, after all deductions? 10%? When the wealthy are paying 35% their 10% would equal 3.5 where yours is 1.5 or 10% of the original 15%.


A Plan does not tell you when or where. You think with the 1000s of flights everyday and with 365 days per year and hundreds of airports and millions of buildings that our Intel was going to be able to pinpoint? Who was doing the searching? What Agency? Maybe we should get the Fantasy Agency that knows all to see if they can solve the Armor Truck Robbery in Rutland or the millions of unsolved Crimes. At least the unsolved crimes have clues with your idea of being able to pinpoint the WTC Attacks all we had for clues was a remote maybe we were going to be attacked. There was no rule book that said it was going to be with Aircraft. You seem to be dissatisfied with the Patriot Act and yet you demand super Crystal Ball work, how? Please explain how anyone would be able to act on the little info they had and come up with the answer. Please helps us out here Firedog. You seem to think we have Super Human Powers to solve mysteries. ROFLMAO


You mean the European Missile Defense that the Man from Kenya wants to abolish if he can get Russia to help with Iran?

No! You can't go on for hours, you have not said anything yet except for a bunch of nonsense. Maybe I didn't explain the answers accurately for you, but you can research and look them up. Your reasons were all worn out childish objections without a clue of the real world.

What do you do for work, Firedog? are you a fireman? Maybe you have caused more destruction in your poor attempts to put a fire out than the fire caused. Anyone can accuse another but have the decency to do so with FACTS and not a bunch of garble.

Once again pretty poor attempts by both posters. They show they are poorly informed and believe CNN, Washington Post and the New Your Times propaganda and that they can not seek the real truth out for themselves. They find easier to repeat nonsense and hate for no real reason. Way to go, you two. Excellent job of flashing ignorance.
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 4:09 pm EST

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Firedog: Good, factual post, but as you shall soon see it won't matter to the quizmeister.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 3:24 pm EST

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1. Name one thing that President Bush did without any assistance from the Congress or any other agency that was NOT in the BEST interest of the country.
since the president has to have assistance from other agencies (either get them to do something, or get advice from, this creates a bit of an issue.) That being said, the authorization of torture, and methods specificially notated as torture, was 1) not in the best interest of the nation and 2) illegal. It is illegal because 1) it has been outlawed in multiple conventions the the US has signed making it the "law of the land" and 2) we have specificially tried, convicted and sentenced several foreign military troops and officers for the specific methods authorized. This shows a legal history for those things being a crime.
2. Give one example of a LIE that President Bush told. I want the quote and the the facts that prove he was lying.
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." this was may 1st, 2003... we are still at war today.
"The vast majority of my [proposed] tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum."
The lowest 60 percent netted only 12.6 percent.
"No one could have conceivably imagined suicide bombers burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly their aircraft--fly US aircraft--into buildings full of innocent people."
the 9-11 comission found that this exact scenario had been uncovered and thwarted in other nations, and that the US intelligence community had received numerous reports that bin ladin was planning just such an attack in the US.
"We're not going to deploy a [missile defense] system that doesn't work."
Yet he authorized the deployment soon after, of a still non-operational system.
I can honestly go on for hours. unfortunetly, i only have a small amount of time between jobs today. hopefully this will tide you over.
-- Posted by firedog on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 2:10 pm EST

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Since this blog is almost done....
LET ME be one of the last to BASH BUSH....
BASH BASH BASH

PS Old man BUSH jumps with the his GOLDEN parachute 2morro

Let me get a couple of more in BASH BASH....
-- Posted by My Comment on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 1:03 pm EST

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And another lie was claiming that Saddam had a major role in financing and supporting the 9-11 attackers. This was totally disproven by the 9-11 commission, and yet they continued to repeat it nonetheless.
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 10:39 am EST

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1. Name one thing that President Bush did without any assistance from the Congress or any other agency that was NOT in the BEST interest of the country.

Invading Iraq when it was not necessary, and without an exit strategy.

2. Give one example of a LIE that President Bush told. I want the quote and the the facts that prove he was lying.

Claiming that Saddam Huessein had weapons of mass destruction and was acquiring uranium for processing.
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 10:37 am EST

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Juliet: Hear the chirping?
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 8:59 am EST

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No one has given any examples or answered my two questions, so I will again ask them here,

1. Name one thing that President Bush did without any assistance from the Congress or any other agency that was NOT in the BEST interest of the country.

2. Give one example of a LIE that President Bush told. I want the quote and the the facts that prove he was lying.

Now please, You want the rest of us to think you are an intelligent group and that you have facts backing up your claims, now is the time to lay them out for all of us to see. Maybe if you can do convincing enough many republicans will stop voting for Republicans run over to the Liberal Left side. LOL FACTS, people, not hear say, not rumors, not assumptions, not wild claims, just plain ole FACTS. Can any of you do it or will there be the continual tap dancing you people do so well?

Look at the Federal Debt during the Clinton years and then explain how that can be if he had such surpluses.
Now look at President Bush years and if you exclude the Bailouts and spending that was passed by the Democratic Majority during FY 08 then you would see that considering the country was fighting two battlefronts, supported by 77 U.S. Senators, the majority of the Congress and the Majority of the voters who can THINK as well as many other countries. Then his Federal Debt increase is in line. Understand the Increase in Interest is added to the dept. Understand as well that Bill Clinton took all the money from the Social Security Trust as well as other trusts and used them to balance his spending and if it wasn't for Newt Ginrich and the Contract With America,, we would have gone downhill sooner.

Ah! now Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Barney was sleeping with a Big Exec from Freddie Mac back in the 90s. Barney and Chris also, out of pure coincidence co sponsored the Housing Relief Bailout, last year. LOL Chris was the one who pressured Clinton to make the changes to the Community Reinvestment Act in 94 and 95. Results were;
"Then in 1995, during the Clinton administration, the Democrats added new provisions that forced banks to issue $1 trillion in sub prime loans" Do a google of former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines and see the connections.

"Carter Administration,
he was associate director for economics and government in the Office of Management and Budget and assistant director of the White House Domestic Policy Staff from 1977 to 1979.

Fannie Mae,
Vice Chairman from 1991 to 1996

Clinton Administration,
he was the Director of the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, where he served until 1998.

Fannie Mae,
returned in 1999 as CEO

Golden parachute,
on December 21, 2004 Raines accepted what he called early retirement from his position as CEO while U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators continued to investigate alleged accounting irregularities."

And according to your favorite Rag the Washington Post he is also the man that the Man from Kenya's Administration has been going to for advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.


Now check this out, my friendly Bush Bashers

"According to a 2000 United States Department of the Treasury study of lending trends in 305 U.S. cities between 1993 and 1998, $467 billion in mortgage credit flowed from CRA covered lenders to low and medium income borrowers and areas. In that period, the total number of loans to poorer Americans by CRA eligible institutions rose by 39% while loans to wealthier individuals by CRA covered institutions rose by 17%. The share of total US lending to low and meduim income borrowers rose from 25% in 1993 to 28% in 1998 as a consequence."

December 8, 1993

SECRETARY BENTSEN
"The proposed reform package we are unveiling today follows the President's directive and fulfills the promise of the law. It will channel billions of dollars a year in new credit into America's distressed communities, while at the same time reducing unnecessary burdens on banks"

"What we're trying to do is to make credit more readily available for small business, for small farms and distressed areas of our country. "


Gene Ludwig, of the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency

"By replacing paperwork requirements with performance tests, this package would stimulate bank lending, investment and service in low and moderate income communities."


the $300 Billion Housing Relief Bailout passed in late July, Sponsored and overwhelmingly passed by Democrats. Chris Dodd was one of the Lead Sponsors.

the $700 Billion Wall Street Bailout, once again the Democratic Majority lead the way and out voted the Republicans in passage of this bill.

So far there is $ One Trillion dollars added to President Bush time in office for latter part of FY08.

Just since January of 2009 the Man from Kenya and his Flying Circus have

Bill or $787 billion economic stimulus measure.
In the house 176 Republicans Voted Against this insanity and in the Senate all but 3 Republicans voted against it.

Since there were was two more Spending Bills passed by Democratic Majority

one for $410 Billion on March 11, 2009 and check it out,

Calling it an "imperfect" bill, President Barack Obama signed a $410 billion spending package Wednesday that includes billions in earmarks like those he promised to curb in last year's campaign. He insisted the bill must signal an "end to the old way of doing business."

But he signed it anyways. What a guy.

Now on top of all this the Man from Kenya has proposed a $3.69 TRILLION Budget for FY2010.

Yet all I hear on these threads is President Bush and how he put us in a financial disaster. What did I miss? Are we confusing the Man from Kenya with President Bush? ROFLMAO

Then we have a real clown on these threads who truly feels when Clinton laid out a 15 year Budget Proposal and showed how the Debt would be paid off by 2012, he thinks this is an accurate prediction. LOL What insanity has been attracted tot he Democrats? No one can do an accurate Budget proposal for much more than a month little alone 15 years. Now we all lay plans out on paper but I will bet not a single person on these threads or anywhere, USA can honestly say that what is planned and what results are the same. B.S. Get Real.

Sorry for the length, I just had to address so much insanity posted by the Whacko Left. How they support each other, just shows that they don't have both oars in the water. Notta has a new hero or is it another of his screen names, Notta/That Guy/ Ex Vermonter/Juliet Notta is fast becomeing a One Man Band. ROFLMAO
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 8:55 am EST

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Juliet: See what I mean? I rest my case.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 7:06 am EST

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LOL, talk about skirting the question Juliet, you are a true protege of your commander-in-chief. The love story between you, Notta, and SC Boy is touching though....funny visual of two crusty old turds who's best days are behind them rolling around with a pseudonym bearing person named Juliet, I bet you're a dude aren't you? LOL....Seriously, being in Vermont, you guys should have a group date, go out to the woods, build a campfire and sing Kumbayah....and whatever else it is that suits you...bleecchhhhh!!!
-- Posted by David Randall on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 6:56 am EST

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Americans should never forget the excesses and incompetence of the Bush - Cheney Administration. If we are allowed to forget, we may elect equivalent bozos all over again. And the remedial actions necessary today can only be fully understood and appreciated in the context of an understanding of the situations that the prior administration got America into. Hard to understand why we are struggling to get out of the ditch without understanding why we got in the ditch, and who put us there, and what wacky ideas they had that put us in the ditch.

Never forget. Never again.
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 6:22 am EST

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Juliet: I decided about ten days ago that there are three or four regular, self-righteous, know it all posters here that I am not going to engage with because it has become exceedingly boring. They remind me of some teachers I had in high school who would read to us out of the textbook and then write what they had just read on the chalkboard. When we dared ask a thoughtful question they would get angry and say, "Because it's in the book". On this message board the answer is, "Because Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck say so".

Then, Juliet, there is one poster that leaves me feeling like I need to be disinfected every time I have engaged with him. A self-proclaimed patriot and member of the military who disrespects and trashes his commander-in-chief. A know it all who takes every opportunity to remind us of his intelligence but can't spell, capitalize or punctuate correctly. And, a racist.

I agree with most of what you post, both fact and opinion. But sadly, I will have to stand on the sidelines in regards to the doofuses here. I'm not getting any younger and hate the thought of wasting even a minute of my life on these nincompoops.
-- Posted by SC Boy on Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 4:56 am EST

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wow nn, you really seem to think W did no wrong. amazing. please, go do a google search, you will find ample stuff, not just from lefty sites either. while you are at it, google washington and even adams. Lying has been a presidential hobby for many years. Be sure to look p the definition of a lie first though, wouldnt want you to get confused.
-- Posted by firedog on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 11:23 pm EST

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Juliet Chien asks, " ... what do you think Jack, SC Boy, Notta, etc....?"

Jeezum, Juliet, I think I'm in love! Keep up the good work. I can't speak for the others you mentioned but I'm thinking I might write in your name for governor next time out, but only if the Dems and Progs can't settle on one candidate to kick ol' Jimmy Boy back to Middlebury where he'll feel more at home with those snooty, rich folks with whom he's so comfortable. I guess it's always comfortable to live in someone else's pocket, all snug and warm, huh?

Anyway, it's nice to see there are other people on the RH threads that have their heads screwed on right. Thanks for all you do! It's so nice to read something other than the pablum that gets spewed here by those who have to change their names every few weeks to avoid the RH censor or those who have their noses tucked so far up the hoohoo of the few remaining GOPs left in state government - almost all of them owing their jobs to King Jimbo and his PR efforts - efforts that obviously have gone all for naught now that Jimbo can't even sustain his vetoes on important bills.

Thanks again. Have a nice night.
-- Posted by Notta Bushman on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 11:06 pm EST

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You are right David, one by one, Obama is breaking each and every one of his campaign promises. You can always tell when Obama is lying, his lips are moving.

Can anyone really trust anyone who uses aliases? Obama's real name is Barry Sotero.
-- Posted by Joe Bradley on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:57 pm EST

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Everyone on this blog...tell us if your gross income is $250,000 plus? Your choice...enrich a few fat cats or enrich your community. Let's stop buying this junk that somehow the little people are apt to pay more. If done right those who can will pay and those who can't will be in the public health system. Insurance companies are about profit, not about good public health systems. If the private sector wants to play fair then ther is no problem.
The deal here is that those corporations don't like you if you are old or sick. No profit there.
We are NOT talking about a government run health care system.

Here is my proposal...YOU, members of Congress, who don't want a public option, YOU, buy private insurance based on YOUR risk. YOU don't like the public option. YOU VOTE AGAINST IT...YOU...ARE OUT OF IT! LET'S SEE WHERE THEY GO.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:41 pm EST

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So Juliet you advocate "tax increases and spending cuts"? There are two problems with that, Obama is doing anything but cutting spending, and as far as tax increases, he promised on his campaign that he wouldn't raise taxes on couples making less than $250,000 and now will obviously break that promise. Why can you not understand how infuriating that is? Regardless of party affiliation.
-- Posted by David Randall on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:29 pm EST

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Tuck it back, Jack. Sure, I've agreed with most of Juliet's arguments, but her discourse leaves much to be desired. Oh so much. She's as big a mudslinger as any. So her arguments become garbage.

Comments from Kevin Spaulding was great; informative, civil, and open; but I'm pretty sure y'all scared him out of here.

-NN5
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:16 pm EST

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Some are playing like this is some kind of sporting event. Sure we can play, that's fun and everything, but in the end, rational reflective thinking will rule the day. Thanks Juliet for all of the excellent comments. I think you might be the smartest person on this forum. As for the rest of us...

The memo has been posted time and time again: adults needed at this time.
-- Posted by Jack on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 8:48 pm EST

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We could have duelling moron charges/debates here, Smarty guy, but you really don't want to go there...what do you think Jack, SC Boy, Notta, etc....?
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 8:24 pm EST

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Juliet Chien,
Your Obama hero has sucked us into record deficit by blowing billions of dollars on bailouts for incompetant companies. Don't even try to drag down President Reagan's policies on deficit. Obama is a slime. Your hero Obama spent more in his first 90 days than Bush did in 8 years. Obama is trying to tax us back into prosperity. Your letter is an example of the lack of common sense that liberals possess. Our country started it's downward slide because of the "new direction" that liberals wanted to take us when they took over Congress in january of 2007. They DID take us in a new direction alright...We went from record low unemployment levels and a booming economy to right down the toilet. Liberals are morons.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 7:55 pm EST

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No howls from me Juliet. You made incredibly good and insightful points. Until the large majority of Republicans consistently demonstrate adult behavior their opinions will remain suspect and their viewpoint will be marginalized.
-- Posted by Jack on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 7:31 pm EST

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KS offers some good information. But I want to point out to this board...that we have a representative democracy. If we don't like the policies, then we elect others with different views closer to our own. No one has said here that Obama would magically solve all the problems that have been handed to him. Quite to the contrary. On the other hand, the right side of the discussion takes no responsibility and in fact doesn't even acknowledge problems created before Obama took office. They don't want to have a rational discussion or acknowledge that a combination of tax increases and spending cuts will solve it. They still think Reagan's notion of growing your way out of deficit will work. Utter folly! Some of us are willing to take responsibility as citizens for solving the problem including paying our fare share of the burdens of taxes because, we the people, means just that. WE. First some of this crowd needs to be convinced that bad policy decisions, costly wars without end, and delusional thinking that justified spending without taxing is what got us to this point, not some battered woman on public assistance! Now just wait for the howls this blog evokes!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 5:48 pm EST

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Notta is not Juliet...
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 5:38 pm EST

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My question is what happen to looking at Barney Frank and Chris Dodd's oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Everyone blames Bush for the financial crisis that began with the failure of the above mentioned government ordained financial institutions. I believe BF and CD should be removed from their respective positions and sent packing. Also, it is high time we have term limits. Our founding fathers never envisioned career politicians, regardless of party. This would help break the financial lock various special interest groups have on our elected officials. Kevin is correct. Stop bashing on this website and provide intelligent ideas.
-- Posted by Allen Seiple on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 4:49 pm EST

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None none.
I know I have goals in my life I wish to achieve. In order to have some understanding of where I stand in relation to accomplishing those goals, yes I do predict what my budget will be for this week,month and year. I also look out ten years and try to plan on what I think may occur in my personal life. Truck,roof,furnace,college for the kids etc. I thought everyone did the same?? I just hope you don't hurt yourself with all that rolling around your doing.

I dont have time to respond to all your queries except to say The gist of my "rant" was to show that both parties are at fault here. It seems I didn't fully accomplish my goals. Perhaps I could have made it easier on myself and those who choose to read this by stating the following....

To claim that Bush is fully responsible for all the issues we are dealing with is ridiculous. To claim Obama can save us from it all is equally as ridiculous. But it seems that this board is really not about sane and logical conversation.
This board is about name calling, hyperbole,exaggeration and out right lies.
-- Posted by Kevin Spaulding on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 1:49 pm EST

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Great Tap Dancing people.

Kevin

You are so far off in left field you may be lost for a long time to come.

You are quoting Budget predictions made through 2012? WOW! roflmao, can you predict your household budget through next year? Yeah! right. Any budget prediction beyond the current year is all fantasy, now get real.

If you look at the Federal Debt during the Clinton years it climbed at a much higher rate than it did in the previous 8 years. The Only decrease in his deficit was because of Newt Gingrich and the "Contract with America' The Democrats voted AGAINST the Balance Budget Amendment.

The Democrats since they took Majority control have spent $2.3 Trillion in NEW spending. That includes the Housing Relief Bailout, the Wall Street Bailout, Auto Industry Bailout and Two Stimulus Spending Bills.
As I check the voting records on who voted for these Bailouts and stimulus packages it was overwhelmingly Democrats with Republicans voting against them.
There are many websites where you can gain this info and if this is true, which iit is, how can you blame Bush for what the Democrats have been clearly doing, by their majority?

FACT Bush tried to get a Bill pushed through that would put the Trust of Social Security OFF Limits to the Federal Government, after Clinton took all the cash in the trust and used it to smoke screen his spending, Which Party has stalled and filibustered this Bill from being passed?
The current administration has spent more since July of 2008 than Bush did in all of his 8 years.
You are right about one thing though, The Man from Kenya doesn't have a clue what he is doing, he is just doing Lip Service and because so many people want to believe that Change is possible, they believe him. The problem is that results prove that mistakes are being made and the little guy who just happens to also be the voters is paying and come next election unless they have less than Two brain cells, the democratic party will be pushed from their positions and replaced. People do not want Lip service they want results that work and not favor Lobbyist, Bankers, and corrupt bankers.

The crisis did not start in 2001 and if you look at the growth of the Federal Debt during Bush;s 8 years, it was a slower growth than when any Democrat was in office.

After the Man from Kenya's big spending spree the Interest Rate on the debt has increased to over $500 Billion per year. $500 billion in just interest, Do you know what the Democrats will do to solve this problem/ They will raise the minimum wage to $10 per hour to devalue the value of the debt. A million was worth more when minimum wage was $1.10 per hour. As the Wage goes up everything else does to and that 10 cent soda is now a buck. The dollar loses value and throw in the Euro and the World economy and we will nose dive in the dollar value. Stand by to watch your money become a lot like the German Mark of 1930. You will be able to use the dollar to start fires. we are on the road to destruction and you fools praise the man who just put the petal to the metal. ROFLMAO Wake up.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 11:10 am EST

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Notta - Why did you change your name to Juliet?
-- Posted by Mr. Moderate on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:38 am EST

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There are two basic truths behind our massive deficits this country will have in the coming years. The first is that president Obama's agenda,ambitious as it may be, is responsible for only a sliver of the defecits,despite what many of his Republican critics are saying. The second is that President Obama does not have a realistic plan for eliminating the deficit,despite what his advisers have suggested.

The story of todays deficits starts in January 2001, when Bill Clinton left office. The congessional budget office estimated that the government would run a surplus of more than 800 billion a year from 2009-2012.Today,the government is expected to run a 1.2 trillion annual deficit in those years.

you can think that the roughly 2 trillion swing as coming from four categories-The business cycle,President Bush's policies,policies from the Bush years that are scheduled to expire but Mr. Obama has chosen to extend, and the new policies proposed by President Obama.

The business cyle accounts for approx 37% of the 2 trillion swing. It is a reflection of the fact that both the 2001 recession and the current one reduced tax revenue ,required more spending on safety net programs and changed economists assumptions about how much in taxes the government would collect in future years.

About 33% is due to the new legislation that was signed by Mr. Bush. That legislation,like his tax cuts and the medicare prescription drug benefit,not only continue to cost the government but have increased the interest payments on the national debt.

President Obama's main contribution to the deficit is his extension of several Bush policies,like the Iraq war and tax cuts for households making less than 250,000 together such policies,along with the wall street bailout which was signed by Mr. bush and supporte3d by Obama account for about 20%

The stimulus bill accounts for only 7% and about 3% comes from Obama's agenda on health care,education,energy and other areas.

Bush behaved incredibly irresponsible for building such a huge deficit for eight years. On one hand ,it might seem unfair to blame Obama for not fixing it. On the other hand,he isnt fixing it and not fixing it will make it worse.

The congressional budget office projects a deficit of at least 4% for most of the next decade. Thats probably optimistic since the government usually ends up spending more than what they say.So Obama isnt on course to meet his targets of a deficit equal to no more than 3% of GDP within 5 to 10 years.

Judd greg recently showed a chart on the senate floor showing that President Obama would increase the deficit,although he failed to mention that much of the increase stems from extending Bush policies. In fact, unlike Mr. Obama, republicans favor extending all Bush tax cuts, which will send the deficit higher.

Republican leaders in the house announced a plan to cut spending by 75 billion a year. But they made specific suggestions adding up to a meager 5 billion. The remaining 70 billion was left vague.Even the Cato institute, a conservative Think tank said that the G.O.P. isnt serious about cutting down spending.

The solution to our deficit problem is no mystery. It will require some combination of tax increases and spending cuts. It will not be limited to pay-as-you-go rules,tax increases on somebody else or a crackdown on waste,fraud and abuse.Your taxes will go up and some programs you favor will most certainly become less generous.

the legacy of our trillion dollar deficits will be that erasing them will become one of the greatest political issues of the coming decade
-- Posted by Kevin Spaulding on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 9:53 am EST

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Noney...I gave you the no 1 lie by Dubya, and frankly given the fact that he ended his term in office on his keesta leaving us in the middle of the worst financial mess in 80 years...there's not much to add. I also think you need a civic lesson on how government works and the US Constitution past the Preamble and the 2nd amendment!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 8:55 am EST

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This IS an opinion page, right? I'm just stating my opinion. You flag waving Bush fans probably have about the same IQ as Dubbya himself. Look it up. I believe he was in the below average catagory. Come on! The guy couldnt even speak english at a high school level!!! Welcome to low brow America. The only reason he graduated college was his name and his dad's money. At least Clinton could play the sax and his thing still worked. You fault a man for having sex outside of his marriage. Fine. Just know that it happens all the time everywhere. No one is really above doing that. I'm not an Obama fan. He was the re-bound effect of ourlast president. I hate Dems and Repubs. They are both equally greedy, corrupt, and useless.
Way back when, I voted for Ross Perot. The only candidate in memory that might have actually helped this country.
Too bad only Dems and Repubs can get elected. Its a pitiful shame actually.
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 7:46 am EST

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It is SOP for party partisans to continue to bash the previous adminsitration. The more they can divert peoples attention from the current administration the longer he/she gets a free ride.

It is important for people to understand the difference between bashing and legitimate differences of opinion regarding policy and actions. Bashing in my opinion is when folks go after an individual personally. Calling names and making jokes about them personally. It is important that we look at policy and actions of any administration critically to try and decide if things are going to be helpful long-term not just a quick feel good measure.

I'm afraid that many of the current policies of government interferance in businesses and the bankruptcy procedure is going to be very unhealthy for future business investment.
-- Posted by northstar62 on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 7:09 am EST

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I can give a long list of faults by the Man from Kenya.
I can do the same for Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.

I'll ask any of you Bush bashers to name one each of the following and back it with full detail.

1. Name one time he lied and post the lie. Be sure you fully understand what a lie is first.

2. Name one thing that Bush did, totally on his own and without the Congress or any other agency, that was not inthe best interest of the country.

Please No tap dancing.

Firedog I am looking forward to your response as yours Notts. Hopefully they will be better than SC Boys insane response. So here is your time people, and be sure whatever you post is easily verified.
Have a happy
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 6:29 am EST

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Dr. Gonzo, the title for this nation's worst president is yet to be determined. Bush made many mistakes, lied a lot but is he really any different from the president before him and the one before HIM, etc? Dubbya, as you so freely state, was elected by the people of this country, not once but twice to do the job he was elected to do. He did NOT lead this country into the ground, quite frankly, no one really can pinpoint whom exactly did, I mean this country was in debt a long time before he came along. So your comment about that particular topic is flawed. Obama just recently approved a $787 billion "stimulus" package, claiming that this would rebuild America. Let us not forget what the original package amount was ($975 billion.) This is going to help rebuild America? Really? How about run America straight into the ground, more like. $11.3 trillion in debt and climbing. So don't tell me that the Republicans are bad when a Democrat just added $787 billion to the national debt, a debt that my children, their children and all of the other children for decades will have to pay off. You want to label this nations worst president too quickly, I believe. In 2012, after this country has suffered enough, I believe wholeheartedly that we can move closer to naming the nation's worst president. Anyone agree? I certainly do and we're only in the first 152 days of this "Yes We Can" crap. Maybe it's just my pessimist side sneaking out but can you or anybody else really blame me?
-- Posted by Nicholas Searles on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 11:35 pm EST

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Please, President Obama's failures? The man has barely been in office 6-months. On his worst day, he is still a mile above the previous office holder. Don't think you can just try to change the subject after the mess that Bush Cheney left to clean up do you? As for Cheney, he's trying to establish himself a defense against being charged with war crimes!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 11:27 pm EST

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Yes, Billy C lied...about sex. Any of you folk ever lie about sex? But however immature and unsavory the behavior, Clinton's daliance was not the moral equivalent of the kind of lies that put the lives of thousands of people, both American and Iraqi, on the line! Not by a long shot!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 11:19 pm EST

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Bashing is in the eye of the beholder...We will be digging our butts out of the dung for decades after 8 years of Bushism and the culmination of 30 years of Reaganism, unfettered and un regulated markets. It is critical to remember how we got here in order to know where to go next. If that's bashing, so be it. We can certainly concede that the majority of our leaders in both parties authorized the use of military force in Iraq, just short of a formal declaration of war. But it is important to remember that those votes were made on the basis of TOTALLY FALSE, AND FABRICATED information! Now there were a few very liberal voices who said that information was false and faulty at the time, but they were called unpatriotic and the "radical fringe." I think we know who they are and we should be very proud of the fact that they were and are our representatives. It says it all about the people of this state and who they choose, by a majority vote, to speak for them in congress!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 11:15 pm EST

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Angel, Very true, but there has been so much dis-information (on both sides) that it has to be weeded through to get to the truth. And ST, it is true clinton lied. you cannot say he was the most dishonest though... remember Nixon? Heck, every president, every politician lies, Clinton got caught. And he did what our country has come to do when caught in a lie... he lied more. do a quick google search on the proven lies of any given president, Clintons list is not quite as long as several others.
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 8:02 pm EST

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Face it Liberals, Clinton was the most dishonest president in the history of the United States. Ask Vince Foster..... Wait a minute, you can't. He was tied in with the clintons, and now he's dead. Remember Whitewater?
Remember Monica? Clinton LIED on stand and under oath about Monica. He didn't have to lie about Monica. All he had to say was: "I'm 54, Monica is 24, My wife Hillary is about as attractive as a rusty tire chain, Do you blame me?". Anyone who has seen his wife would understand why he strayed. Instead though, Clinton lied.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:51 pm EST

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True, but those who get mired in the mud go nowhere. Everyone knows what happened, everyone has studied it to death. If we don't start paying attention to the here and now how will we see the mistakes being repeated and new and possibly worse ones being made?
-- Posted by Angel None on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:51 pm EST

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Angel,
Man stands on the shoulders of his ancestors. Those who do not study the past and history are doomed to repeat it.
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:43 pm EST

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Dante wrote of a circle in hell where everyone's head was turned backwards, they could only see where they had been and not where they were or where they were going. Let's not be like the fortune tellers and look only backward. I'm not wasting any more of my time on what Bush did or was (the operative words being "did" and "was"). There are too many terrible things happening right now, too many terrible places where we are heading to dwell on bad things in the past. We need to be paying strict attention to the here and now and looking at where these roads are leading us.
-- Posted by Angel None on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:37 pm EST

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I love how the right, when hearing any criticism of Bush, will do one of three things... 1- say "he is out of power, drop it." 2- say "Its not his fault, it is Clintons fault." or a NN shows on a daily basis- give no facts at all, and attack the poster. it amazes me on a daily basis how they are completely incapable of admiting that anyone on their side could have made any mistakes. and when anyone does... they are bashing America. Yet they will bash anyone else, and that is patriotic. Goes right back to just after 9-11. Anyone who said anything negative about Bush, the repubs or the wars was unpatriotic. It is really sad how for over 8 years now our politicians, and many mindless followers on both sides are unable to have any form of intelligent debate... it all becomes insults.
as for bush-bashing... it will end when the clinton bashing ends... and no bush wasn't impeached, because the democrats were their usual spineless selves. and about 9-11... both clinton and bush were at fault. in fact, lets look at the 80s shall we? You know, when the rights demi-god Regan was in power? You know, the man who ordered the funding and training of Bin-Ladin and Al-Queda? oh wait, you cannot say anything negative about Regan, or his policies.
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 5:29 pm EST

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"Imperialism" is the improper term. The term is "neo-liberalism." Because indeed, the intentions of the policy behind the Iraqi occupation was not intended to confer benefits onto society as a whole. If you look into documents such as "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (a euphemism, if I've ever seen one), which was written by Bush's administration prior to Bush taking office, you'll see that was hardly the intent. The intent was and is to maintain global military dominance so that those in power may maintain their own economic, social, and political dominance within this country. This document makes it quite clear, by the way.

And tossing "socialism" around like a bullet is an outdated (yet, highly effective) tactic that has little to do with economic policy and more to do with "muddying the water" so no one can have an intelligent debate.
-- Posted by Ryan Emerson on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 2:22 pm EST

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I never understood how it became Bush`s war? Did not our great representatives send them there. If I remember correctly the numbers voteing in favor of sending our troops into harms way were overwhelming. Somehow this became Bush`s war after. Now I may not have the best memory, but I blame them all. Along with the current economic mess were in. The Democrates were in charge of the purse strings for some time now!
-- Posted by Frank Westcott on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 2:21 pm EST

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As long as there are mindless Bush bashers (Barry Sotero included) we will continue to have diversions away from Obama's failures.

Clearly, some of the Socialists who post here envision criticism to be a one way street in which Dick Cheney may not respond to Barry's criticism of the Bush administration. Such is the mindset of the liberal Socialist.
-- Posted by Joe Bradley on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 12:13 pm EST

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Bush wasn't IMPEACHED as was Billy Boy. LOL

Where do you get the information that Bush is going down in history as the worst President? Care to share your sources? I'll bet it is either CN, NYT or the Washington POST ROFLMAO

The Man from Kenya seems to be ignoring North Korea and Iran, anyone care to bet where the NEW draft Dodger will send our troops next? Maybe he hasn't a clue what is going on in Korea or Iran because he is too busy making apologies to Muslim countries for the U.S. What a guy. He is a real token of a quality President, then again anyone who would vote for Ted Kennedy, Pelosi, Biden, Hillary, Bill, Dean, Byrd or Franken must be real experts in the qualifications for a Political Representative.

I think everyone who believes in the Republicans, need to listen to the fruitcakes gathered on these threads. ROFLMAO They will without doubt vote for Democrats if they do. LOL
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 11:10 am EST

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The Clinton admin. had a chance to take out Bin Laden and didn't. Doesn't that make 9/11 Billy Bob's responsibility?
As far as imperialism goes, I would think we'd be getting some political or financial benifit from what we are doing in Iraq. Please explain what we've gained from helping the people of Iraq.
-- Posted by ANDREW CHAPLEAU on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 9:50 am EST

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That is real funny mountain moron, are you seriously trying to insult someone when you cant even spell "knew" correctly? go back to school and read some history I had a brother that was a firefighter who died in the towers of 9/11 so what the hell would you know? Oh that's right nothing because you don't even know how to spell simple second grade words correctly.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 9:20 am EST

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When the current administration cleans up the bloody mess the Cheney/Bush boys made, then and only then will we be able to stop talking about that mess.

PS: The tragedy of 9/11/01 is on the Bushies, not the current administration nor the Clinton administration. The redoubled tragedy of attacking Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, when we should have kept hunting for Osama bin Laden is on the Bushies, not anyone else. The blood and treasure wasted on the Iraq adventure in imperialism is on the Bushies not anyone else.
-- Posted by Notta Bushman on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 9:19 am EST

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Mr. Bush will be bashed for the next 50 years or so.
He is already going down in history as the worst president this country has ever had. 3 generations from now, school kids will be reading about Dubbya in their books and how he sank this country. We do it to ourselves people.
We elect this kind of trash over and over again. And the Dem's offer nothing better. Obviously America has a learning disability.
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 9:15 am EST

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Hey Mountain Boy, the Iraq war isn't a result of 9/11. It's the result of a false assumption that Iraq had WMDs.

I don't think people are complaining about hunting Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda down....
-- Posted by Dave None on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 8:07 am EST

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Chuck: My grandfather told me that what goes around comes around. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Feith/Gonzalez bashed this country for eight years. Have a little patience with us, Chuck.

And NoneNone One has it exactly right. With Cheney running his mouth like he is, what do you expect in return?
-- Posted by SC Boy on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 7:22 am EST

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Guess you two bozos new no one that died on 9/11! I'm sure we will have alot to bash soon with Obama, can't wait!
-- Posted by Mountain Boy on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 7:00 am EST

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There's a lot of damage to undo from the last eight years the worst of which is the pitiful war Bush got us into which resulted in so many needless deaths. Not a single death was worth it. He owns that. That will be his legacy, the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Bashing is too good for him. He should be in jail.
-- Posted by noozereeder on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:09 am EST

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The Bush/Cheney bashing will stop when Cheney learns to keep his fat mouth shut.

So Cheney can bash Obama but the "Bush Bashing" must stop?

Hypocrite.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 5:45 am EST

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