RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

Split decision in custody battle



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By Gordon Dritschilo Herald Staff - Published: January 29, 2009

Neither Lisa Miller nor Janet Jenkins got everything they asked for Wednesday in Rutland Family Court.

Miller sought to eliminate or reduce the number of court-ordered visits her former civil-union partner has with her daughter, Isabella. Judge William Cohen denied that motion.

Jenkins sought primary custody of the 6-year-old girl. Cohen also denied that motion, but put Miller on notice that continued violation of court orders would put her custody in jeopardy. He also ordered Jenkins get custody of the child in Vermont for five weeks during the summer.

"At some point, Miss Miller's behavior is forcing a hand," Cohen said.

Isabella was born in 2002, when Miller and Jenkins were still together. Since they split up in 2003, they have been locked in a custody battle.

Jenkins lives in Fair Haven. Miller moved to Virginia, where state law specifically rejects the legitimacy of same-sex unions.

In court Wednesday, her attorney, Stephen Crampton, said she did not comply with Vermont court orders because she did not believe Virginia authorities would enforce them.

The jurisdictional battle went before the supreme courts of each state, with Vermont's asserting jurisdiction and Virginia's eventually agreeing. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case.

The daylong hearing Wednesday started with Miller testifying that Isabella became increasingly distraught after visits with Jenkins. A counselor who has worked with Isabella also testified, characterizing Isabella's stress as typical of a child caught in a custody battle.

Jenkins testified on Miller denying her access to Isabella, her desire to see more of the child — consistently referring to her as "my daughter" — and her willingness to grant Miller more access as custodial parent than Miller has granted her.

Jenkins said she was repeatedly told through their attorneys that Miller would not make the child available for court-ordered visits in Virginia and that she went eight months without seeing Isabella before a visit over Martin Luther King Day weekend.

She testified that she was ready to take custody of Isabella, that she lived a short walk from Fair Haven Grade School, that she has experience with 6-year-olds from her work running a daycare and that she had a counselor lined up to help Isabella with any transition issues.

"My daughter could set down roots because I plan to live there, grow old there and turn my house over to her," Jenkins said.

Crampton argued that the girl's behavior was a cause for concern and that Virginia's willingness to enforce Vermont's court orders would assure Miller's future compliance.

He also argued that a change of custody would amount to punishing the child for her mother's misdeeds, saying the disruption of moving from Vermont to Virginia in the middle of the school year was not in Isabella's best interest.

If the court felt it needed to transfer custody, Crampton said, it should at least wait until the summer.

A third attorney representing Isabella argued that as the child had only ever known a home with Miller, transferring custody to Jenkins would not be in her best interest.

Cohen said Vermont law seeks to maximize social contact between a child and both parents, and that the Vermont Supreme Court has held that Jenkins is one of Isabella's parents.

He said Miller was put on notice early on that her refusal to comply could lead to a loss of custody, and that she had repeatedly violated the court's orders. However, he said Jenkins had not met the "high burden of proof" needed to show that a change of custody was in Isabella's best interest.

Crampton said Miller was grateful to retain custody.

"She's still pursuing appeals in Virginia, but we are hopeful we will not be back in Vermont for a while," he said.

Contact Gordon Dritschilo at gordon.dritschilo@rutlandherald.com.








READER COMMENTS


Arnie,

This link http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html starts out with the following statement: "This list is intended for reference purposes only and does not imply a causal relationship between homosexuality and serial killing."

This link http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html#source clearly points out its time line bias with this statement: "For 1989 through 2002 inclusive".

And further points out its bias by news media, that tends to be slanted toward sensational reporting by the fact that people in general are more drawn to bad news instead of good news, by the following statement: "an on-line search service, scans the whole text of over 50 English regional and national newspapers, largely in the U.S."

This link http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRR_03_02.html also shows its slant by the following statement: "Of the 90 news stories where the child was raped and murdered (0.47% of the unique child molestation stories), 40% involve homosexual molestation."
The key portion of which is this statement: "(0.47% of the unique child molestation stories)" which shows a clear manipulation of numbers to make them sound a certain (biased) way.

This link http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=224 also discredits your argument with this statement: "No, it [homosexuality] can't be listed as the only factor in the demise of the Roman Empire. But Sally Kern never made that statement."

This link http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=224 even discredits Dr. Carle Zimmerman's 1947 book comparing the fall of the Roman empire with the fall of American society with the following statements:

"1. The breakdown of marriage and rise of divorce." Something that was already started by the time that homosexuality ever became an issue in that area.
"3. The rise of Feminism." An issue that not only shows discrimination but also shows that humanity (specifically males) just wasn't ready to be equals with their marriage partners in ancient Rome.
And lastly here is the dosie as it knocks your precious heteros:
"6. Refusal of people with traditional marriages to accept their family responsibilities."

And this link http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexual has a link in the side bar called "Conservapedia Commandments" and is riddled throughout with religious arguments and references. That's not slanted is it? (sarcasm)

If I can find all of these flaws in your articles just by visually skimming for key words, and then reading the paragraphs that contain them, and not an all out read, how many more would I find if I read the full text?
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Wed, Feb 4, 2009, 5:10 pm EST

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Testing my internet connection and posting ability. Please disregaurd this post.
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Mon, Feb 2, 2009, 6:47 pm EST

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No, Arnie, I meant exactly what I said.

These comments are on an article about two lesbians. One of whom "rediscovered" her Baptist faith and decided to leave her partner, with whom she had both a CU and a child. She was represented by right wing Falwell-founded Liberty Counsel folks -- they, by the way, believe the kind of nonsense you've been posting. They're the ones who destroyed the family and attempted illegally to take the child away from one of her mothers. Those are the fruits of the kind of pseudo-science you quote.

I know it's not science. I've heard it all before.
And its evil fruits are visible in this case.

Oh, and I don't know what gay male sex and serial killers has to do with two lesbians. I suspect nothing.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 8:36 pm EST

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What you mean to say Kevin, is I won't find anything you WANT to know.


John

Please do enlighten me. Try going to the sites and reading the facts behind the research and the findings and forget trying to think up some wild thought of maybe this or maybe that.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 5:59 pm EST

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Arnie,
Have you ever done any research into who raised these homosexual serial killers that you are so interested in pointing out? Heteros and/or Closet gays. The majority if not all of these serial killers were raised in a time when homosexuality was something to be denied and detested by society. Many of them probably would not have been serial killers if not for the following reasons:

Parents were ignorant or in denial of their emotional states and therefore could not address them.
Parents tried to change what they were to make them socially/religiously acceptable and in doing so twisted them by either trying to punish it out of them, as was the tried and true method of the times to correct deviant behavior, or by seeking the help of therapists who had no idea what they were doing and thus only succeeded in twisting them further.
Society as a whole rejected them and treated them as deviants, often meeting them with violence just because they were different.

Arnie, find some studies that take these factors into account and I'll bet your numbers drop drastically. Otherwise stop quoting obviously slanted statistics. Try to find some that don't include subjects that weren't only raised by either socially conforming versions of your beloved Heteros or Gays that were socially ostracized and/or twisted by those same types of heteros. Oh wait, that's right, you can't, because gays have not been socially accepted or understood by enough of society for long enough for any of those kinds of studies to be made.
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 4:12 pm EST

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Arnie, I've been reading scholarly books on homosexuality over 20 years and teaching courses on the topic the last 10.

Trust me, you won't find anything I need to know.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 4:05 pm EST

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Kevin

Don't read it, it only proves thatyou are in a clear state of denial.
You have not read the links and yet you declared that the people producing the information are an unhappy handful.. LOL a pure example of denial and that is all the evidence from you I need.

43% of Serial Killers are Homosexuals Kevin, what do you say to that? What do you say to that when they only make up 1 to 2% of the population. Sounds like a very secure bunch to me, and sounds like perfect candidates for raising our children.

A study in Chicago showed that 42.9% of the gays had over 60 partners and 87.8% had over 15 partners. What does that say about the morals of these people, Kevin? You can not find stats like those with Hetrosexuals, and you are saying that these people are find for raising children? Get real, Kevin.

Take the time to read it, Kevin and come out of the denial shell you reside in.

Homosexuals need help and only after we are able to do more research.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 2:07 pm EST

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Arnie: I'm not reading it, but your "real professionals" are professional ideologues, not professional scientists. The professional scientists (doctors, psychologists, sociologists, academics) have settled all these questions and have statements through their organizations about the consensus.

An unhappy handful of ideologues disagree, but have no scientific proof on their side. There are people who don't believe in evolution and people who believe the earth is flat, too. Most people are not interested in engaging them in 2009.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 11:36 am EST

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John: Thanks, and no problem! Nice to see someone actually engage here.

As to children of gay or lesbian parents, I've had many over the last decade in my classes, and they're often wonderful. There is now a whole generation of grown up children of same sex couples. And yes, the jury is in: they are as well adjusted, sometimes better, than children of heterosexual parents. One thing you can say for sure, gay and lesbian couples never have unwanted children, unlike some straight parents.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Sat, Jan 31, 2009, 11:32 am EST

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Comy

Name the alternatives that have always been.
The way I see it, it is not up to you or I and anyone elese's opinion to play pass the ball logic and then make decisions that infringes on the rights of the children who are unable to understand or speak up.

Brian
You refer to studies that seem to elude your reference to links or proper verification.
You only succeed in moving the spotlight from the subject back to heterosexauls and tried to use the guilt parly for justification.
If there were children born to one and then there was a divorce, than instead of becoming a Gay who seems to be defended on these threads as only be attracted to the same gender, then why is it that hetrosexual relations created the child and then the choice wa smade to become a gay and raise the child? The proper and decent thing to do instead of choosing a homosexual lifestyle is if a another partener is needed, then instead of thinking of ones' self, think about the child you brought into the world and then do what is proper, either go at it alone or find a partner of the opposite gender and bring up the child/children with proper balance.
I am sorry I have never heard of success rates being reveal of homosexual raised children, I have read a few where the child was filled with shame and had to keep their mouth shut and could not boast about their parents as other kids did.
Two loving mothers who were thinking of themselves and have no clue what the word sacrifice is. To give in to the homosexual tendancies is not thinking about the child or what is right, but is making a decision for ones self.
As far as not hearing about gays going around killing each other, good God, you are either deaf or blind. There have been homosexual serial killers and so many others. Sounds to me, you only hear and see what you want to hear and see.

http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html
"Although the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experience is high (over 43%)"
"Source, over 43%": "Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children", published in Journal of the Family Research Institute, Vol. 18 No. 1, Feb 2003.
Technically, 69% of the serial killers in this study were homosexuals "
Remember Gays only make up 1 to 2% of the population so they should only be 1 to 2% serial killers.

Be sure to go here for a real solid study
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html#source

Better yet, go to google and type in
serial killers who were homosexuals

Here I typed in

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRR_03_02.html


http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=224
"A lot of comparisons have been drawn between ancient Rome and modern America.

Dr. Carle Zimmerman in 1947 wrote a book called Family and Civilization. He studies the decline of several civilizations and empires. He discovered eight patterns of domestic behavior that signaled the decline of a civilization:

1. The breakdown of marriage and rise of divorce.

2. The loss of the traditional meaning of the marriage ceremony.

3. The rise of Feminism.

4. Increased public disrespect for parents and authority in general.

5. Acceleration of juvenile delinquency, promiscuity and rebellion.

6. Refusal of people with traditional marriages to accept their family responsibilities.

7. A growing desire for and acceptance of adultery.

8. Increasing interest in and spread of sexual perversions (homosexuality) and sex-related crimes.

See any parallels in modern America? Maybe we should be listening to Rep. Kern a little more carefully.

Every historian even modern homosexual revisionists admit that Rome was riddled with homosexuals. Hadrian, one of the best emperors, traveled the empire with a youthful lover, Antinous. Caligula and Nero were accused of having sex with just about anyone or anything."

http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexual
This site is loaded with studies and Real professionals who seem to think Homosxuality is far from normal and the stats that they reveal is astonishing.

for instance

"A new study by a group of University of Chicago researchers reveals a high level of promiscuity and unhealthy behavior among that city's homosexual male population.
According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found.

As a result, 55.1 percent of homosexual males in Shoreland known as Chicago's "gay center" have at least one sexually transmitted disease, researchers said"

Can the above be said about Hetrosexuals? I doubt it.

here is more from the above site

"In regards to the issue of homosexuality and choice, given the existence of ex homosexuals and given the existence of human cultures where homosexuality has apparently not existed, the position that homosexuality is ultimately a choice in individuals or at the very least can be a choice in individuals has strong evidential support."

and then this

"In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls."

Sure makes me want to allow children to be brought up by them.

Sorry, the stats are just too overwhelming to even think that what you claim is true about the children who were brought up by gays. I think you all need to re look at your sources and your facts.

What you do not know about many of the Heterosexual murders is how many were silent gays?

Good luck in your research, but don't go by here say or what sounds good, do your own research and see for yourself.
They need help and they need research and not a marriage license or the rights to raise children.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 11:11 pm EST

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Arnie...

I am so sorry that you feel this way. It's really a shame! But there is statistical data that has been done and shown children of homosexual parents actually thrive. Moreover the children themselves actually finish high school and go on to college and have a higher success rate than that of children from heterosexual couples.

I agree with the post that Colleen Wright wrote about if this were a heterosexual couple we wouldn't hear anything about them at all. It amazes me how much heterosexuals seem to feel that they are the superior sexual orientation. I can't tell you how many couples that I know of that are straight and have had the worst divorce possible, and the children are the ones that suffer.

How many Dateline or 20/20 specials have there been about one or the other spouse actually going so far as to kill the other. I saw two different stories on MSNBC showing a mother actually killing her son's father because he didn't want to be with the mother. A few years later she ended up drowning herself and the child because she was facing murder charges for the father. Not only that I also saw another wife kill her husband and she ended up in prison for a life sentence and the children were left orphans.

Excuse me, but I don't see or hear of gays going around offing each other because they don't want to be with each other anymore! Maybe it's the heterosexuals we should all start protesting!
-- Posted by Brian Leno on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 9:50 pm EST

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There are and always have been many alternatives to the 'traditional' nuclear family.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 9:50 pm EST

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Sorry, was in a real hurry when I did the last post, here it is edited to say what was meant to be said.

Children have rights at Birth. Long before they turn 18 and are allowed to execute them without parental consent.

You are deciding through your Politically Correct Soft Hearts that I am from a backwoods country and yet you want me to believe that it is ok for a child to be raised in an Homosexual envirmonet? Who says you see the world clear? Children need a balanced up bringing and not from two of the same gender.
We have enough split homes as it is. Two gays bringing up a child, the child really has no real understanding of the parent from the opposite gender. The missing, opposite gender parent is not only not living with them, but the child is brought up to believe that two like genders are as good as one from each gender. Wrong! Two gay men can not possibly subsitute a Mom. Two gay women can not possibly substitute a dad. Nor can two of the same gender teach an understanding of the opposite gender, an understanding the child needs to be reared with in order to show proper resepct to both genders.
No! I am not in a back woods country, I am against Gays raising children.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 4:31 pm EST

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Kevin,
I read your linked articles and you're right. I apologize for my earlier post to you.
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 3:58 pm EST

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Fore more on this story see
http://www.newsweek.com/id/172554
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=9262

It's not the "gay marriage" that ruined a life, but the religious wingnuts who broke up this family.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 2:37 pm EST

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John: "The arguments of this case presented in this article have nothing to do with "the thrall of religion and the right wing anti-gay industry""

Yes, but I've been aware of the case since it began long ago.
Miller left Jenkins because she "rediscovered her Baptist faith" and decided not to be a lesbian any more. She was represented by Falwell's Liberty Council.
How many divorces do you know like that?
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 2:35 pm EST

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Children have rights at Birth and long before they turn 18 and are allowe dto execute them without parental consent.

You are deciding through your Politically Correct Soft Hearts that I am from abackwood country and yet you want me to believe that it is ok for a child to be raised in an Homosexual envirmonet? Who says you see the world so clear? Children need a balanced up bringing and not from two of the same gender. We have enough split homes as it is and for 2 gays to bring up a child the child really has no understanding of the parent fro the opposite gender who is not only not living with them but the child is brought up to beleive that two like genders are as good as one fro each gender. Wrong! Two gay men can not possible subsitutie and Mom. Two gay women can ot possibly substitute a dad. Nor can two of the same teach and understanding of the opposite gender, an dunderstanding the child needs to be reared with in order to show proper resepct to both genders.
No! I am not in back woods country, I am against Gays.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 2:09 pm EST

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This case does serve as one example of the damage that can occur in people's lives when their marriage is recognized in one state and not another. It gave one parent a loophole to exploit in order to drag out a custody battle that was harmful to everyone involved. The right of the child to maintain a relationship with both parents was disregarded and the rights of the adoptive parent were disregarded. All because somebody was gay.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 1:56 pm EST

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Kevin: Unfortunately Miller won't give up because she's in the thrall of religion and the right wing anti-gay industry. It's her "family values" that have caused all the trauma.

John: Come on Kevin think about what you say before you just click post. The arguments of this case presented in this article have nothing to do with "the thrall of religion and the right wing anti-gay industry" and everything to do with two divorced and hurting parents wanting to be with their child. No different than what happens between so many other couples, gay or hetero, that divorce.

Kevin: If she'd just share custody of the child as the court ordered there would be no problem.

John: Now this is a useful comment.
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 12:23 pm EST

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Arnie...

Are you serious? What backwoods world are you living in?

"By supporting Gay Civil Unions we are adding to the numbers of children. Gays should not have the option to raise children. The children's rights should not be overpowered by the Adults desire to live an other than normal child rearing life style."

The last time I checked children don't officially have rights until the age of 18. The way I see this is that there are two mothers that clearly love their daughter very much and they are fighting for what is EQUALLY theirs. Just because one woman physically had the child doesn't mean that the other loves the child any less.

When a child is adopted by couple a couple from a foreign country and then decided to divorce... Who should get the child? Should it revert back to the country of origin? Technically it's not from either parent that adopted the child. By saying that gay couples don't have a right to raise children to me is like saying couples that can't conceive naturally can't adopt a child!
-- Posted by Brian Leno on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 12:01 pm EST

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"The child is less than others, because it was being brought up by two of the same halves"

Arnie,
How can even you spout this drivel about one Human Being being less than another?
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 11:43 am EST

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Brian

The child is less than others, because it was being brought up by two of the same halves and now two of the same halves are in a custody battle.
By supporting Gay Civil Unions we are adding to the numbers of children. Gays should not have the option to raise children. The children's rights should not be overpowered by the Adults desire to live an other than normal child rearing life style.
-- Posted by Arnie Thibault on Fri, Jan 30, 2009, 10:10 am EST

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It takes a family with a strong value system to raise a child!
-- Posted by Jake Snake on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 8:05 pm EST

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Unfortunately Miller won't give up because she's in the thrall of religion and the right wing anti-gay industry. It's her "family values" that have caused all the trauma. If she'd just share custody of the child as the court ordered there would be no problem.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 6:44 pm EST

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If this were a heterosexual couple, it would not even have made the papers. I hope that both parents can understand the trauma they are putting this kid through, and rise above bad feelings.
-- Posted by Colleen Wright on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 4:08 pm EST

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Brian,
I don't think that What_Now was even implying that straight couples were better than gay couples. I believe her point was that one state not accepting gay unions formed in another state was very well illustrated by this case.
-- Posted by John Tomsicek on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 2:27 pm EST

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Dear What_Now...

And straight couple can't ruin a life? I shouldn't have remind you that half of all marriages end in divorce and there are many children affected by divorce whether they be from gay, straight, or bi couples. It seems to me that these are just two very loving mothers that want the best for their child. Just because one conceived doesn't make the child any less the others.
-- Posted by Brian Leno on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 1:38 pm EST

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I hope this child has a normal life, ya right. Keep up the good parenting and your literally tear your child in half. I guess gay marriage can ruin a life with it not being accepted in all States.
-- Posted by What_Now on Thu, Jan 29, 2009, 11:58 am EST

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