RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

House shouts yes to gay marriage

95-52 vote falls short of number needed to override expected Douglas veto



Rep. Robert Helm, R-Castleton, offers an amendment to the same -sex marriage legislation that would have delayed the bill until a statewide referendum was taken, during proceedings in the House of Representatives in Montpelier on Thursday.

Jeb Wallace-Brodeur / Times Argus

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By DANIEL BARLOW VERMONT PRESS BUREAU - Published: April 3, 2009

MONTPELIER – The Vermont House voted 95-52 Thursday evening to approve a bill allowing same-sex couples in the state to marry.

The vote, which saw a majority of House Democrats joined by a handful of Republicans in supporting the bill, falls several votes short of the amount that would be needed to override an expected veto from Gov. James Douglas.

Thursday's five-hour floor debate began in the afternoon and extended into the evening as several openly gay and lesbian House members told their stories and urged their fellow lawmakers to support their bid for marriage rights.

"I want to be married legally and I'm asking for your permission to do that," said Rep. Jason Lorber, D-Burlington, during an emotional speech as he described details of his wedding ceremony with his partner. "I don't enjoy asking my co-workers for permission to marry the one I love."

Rep. Suzi Wizowaty, D-Burlington, said she feels sad for people who "must believe that sharing what you have will diminish your happiness." Rep. William Lippert, D-Hinesburg, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said civil unions were a "bold and courageous move, but now it is time for the next step."

Rep. Steve Howard, D-Rutland, said all the doomsday scenarios suggested nine years ago during the civil union debate never came to fruition. He joked that when gays and lesbians move into a neighborhood, the property values go up not because they are good landscapers, but because they are good neighbors.

"I didn't choose to be gay," Howard said. "God made me gay. And I wouldn't trade it for anything."

Weeks after the same-sex marriage bill began in the five-member Senate Judiciary Committee, it came to the end of the legislative road Thursday evening in a vote that saw members of all three parties – Democrats, Republicans and Progressives – voting in support.

But the battle is not over yet: The bill faces a final House vote today, where Republicans are expected to offer more amendments to defeat it, and a veto from Gov. James Douglas, who made the rare move last week to announce he would kill the bill before it even arrived on his desk.

Members of the Vermont Senate are expected to vote on amendments made to the bill in the House on Monday. Depending on when Douglas vetoes the bill, an override attempt could begin as early as Tuesday.

House Republicans made several attempts to kill the bill on the floor Thursday. The biggest push was a familiar one: Send the question to Vermont voters in the form of a nonbinding, statewide town meeting referendum.

Rep. Robert Helm, R-Fair Haven, said waiting a year to hear from Vermonters is only a temporary delay. House Minority Leader Rep. Patti Komline, R-Dorset, who voted for the same-sex marriage bill, said statewide referendums have been used in Vermont 30 times over the years on issues such as prohibition, women's rights and the lottery.

"They will make the right decision if you give them the chance," Komline said. "You have nothing to be afraid of in asking Vermonters how they feel."

Rep. Michael Mrowicki, D-Putney, said the rights of minorities should not be subject to the will of a majority.

"When I hear referendum, I think California," he said. "Watch the way that state has been doing its business. I'm not sure we want to start emulating them."

The amendment failed in a vote of 96-52, mostly along party lines.

A letter from former Republican Rep. Peter Brownell, who lost his seat in a primary election after supporting civil unions, convinced Rep. Kurt Wright, R-Burlington, to support the same-sex marriage bill.

Wright said he didn't make up his mind on the issue until Thursday. Reading from Brownell's letter, one line resonated, "I don't regret my decision for a minute."

Rep. Duncan Kilmartin, R-Newport, was one of the Republicans steadfast in opposition Thursday night. He said same-sex marriage runs counter to 5,000 years of history and tradition.

"The wellspring of our civil rights comes from Jesus Christ dying on the cross," he said.

Some House members were more apologetic in their disagreements. Rep. Thomas Koch, R-Barre, said it is "with regret that I vote no." Rep. Albert Audette, D-South Burlington, told members, "I wish I could vote yes."

"I hope my gay and lesbian colleagues and friends don't think I threw them under the bus," said Rep. Scott Wheeler, R-Newport, who voted no. "But I won't blame them if they do."

daniel.barlow@rutlandherald.com








READER COMMENTS


Comfy, not name calling, or judging you, just describing your actions.

Lets start a gerbil ranch, should do well in VT about now, what you think?
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Apr 5, 2009, 12:04 am EST

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P.S., NN1, I thought you were against name calling. ??
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sat, Apr 4, 2009, 2:43 pm EST

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When is the last time that you heard about someone being beaten to a pulp for being percieved as straight?
NN1, I am about as far from being a pervert as it gets. there is perhaps nobody less qualified to judge me than you.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sat, Apr 4, 2009, 2:41 pm EST

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Comfy, with perverts like you their will be no evolution, quit reading into things. Your still a deviant, this is for you;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izpU4YJ0ZAA
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sat, Apr 4, 2009, 8:11 am EST

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So NN1 knows full well that he is on the losing side of evolution.
ML, keep on keepin' on you know what you are doing. God Bless.

All things bright and beautiful
All creatures great and small
All things wise and wonderful
The good lord made them ALL.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 8:55 pm EST

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Allright there mountain, I looked at your two links. The NY Times was just newspaper bias. The other one was interesting. Bit long so I didn't read the whole thing. It didn't say they had a C-U statute like VT that covers all the state rights covered by marriage. It did say that the "ultimate disadvantage expressed is the inability to obtain for themselves and their children the personal and public affirmation that accompanies marriage." Ok, so I get that. Do you or anyone else think that you can legislate the affirmation portion. Tolerated is nothing like acceptance. That will not happen for hundreds of years. But a hundred years in the universe is but a mere speck on a nats butt. Its taken what, fifty years, just to keep people from beating the snot out of you at every opportunity. Its been a long road for you, the end may be in sight, but you will not live long enough (life span) to enjoy it on a national level. Enjoy your wins though, been one hell of a fight. And no, I'm not changing sides.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 7:47 pm EST

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Now now there brokeback mountain, you trying to quell my freedom of speech. Tad bit sesative are you? Truth hurts?
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 6:08 pm EST

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The justices of the Iowa Supreme Court disagree with Jim Douglas and those that would deny same sex marriage:

http://www.kcci.com/download/2009/0403/19084885.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/us/04iowa.html?hp

And the individuals itereated by Back Nine would no doubt sell their grandmothers if they believed they would garner a vote or two. Depending on the issue--and this is one-politics, ethics and morality are mutually exclusive. Kevin Mullin and others who displayed courage facing this issue are rare exceptions.
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 5:27 pm EST

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Breaking News Headline Next Week: House Shout Out-Sustains Governor's Veto..1000's of manhours wasted on social engineering..Get Back to work people and don't forget the 2010 election is right around the corner. All those legislators who voted against 2/3 of their district (yep, thats most of them) will be accountable next year..If the Kevin Moss's of the world are so sure about "the majority" why don't they support a public referendum? One argument I heard in the statehouse last night is "millions of dollars will come into the state on both sides, so who wants that, trust us (your left wing legislators) we know whats best..". You know how you can tell our legislators are out of touch? They are all well left of center when Barack Obama, Bill & Hillary Clinton and many standard bearer Democrats don't support Gay Marriage, but hey they are smarter than all that brainpower and the tradtional marriage folks... The Dems and progressives make Douglas out to be the bad guy, but he is on the same page as the mainstream..
Perdiction from this corner: Veto Upheld -next
-- Posted by Back Nine on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 5:05 pm EST

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To The Editor of the Rutland Herald:

Is there any compelling reason why NoneNoneOne is allowed to continue to participate in these conversations?
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 4:14 pm EST

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Those who voted no will live to regret their votes -- if they live that long, that is. Most of them are older than Moses and may not live to see their grandchildren ashamed of them.

A majority of Vermonters, like the majority in the House and Senate, support marriage equality.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 2:10 pm EST

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Mr. Holleran:

If our laws parallel the Ten Commandments, then we are a Judeo-Christian nation. When I went to Sunday School I learned the Ten Commandments were delivered to Moses, not Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 1:07 pm EST

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Ain't it ironic that a state supreme court in the middle of America doesn't agree with Vermont's religious zealots?

And to Mr. Holleran: if marriage is so "sacred", the Vermont State Legislature should make divorce illegal!!!
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 12:49 pm EST

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You pro-gay marriage crowd really do need to get over the hate, bigot thing for those who oppose it. If this is your best argument then you have no argument at all.

We are a nation build on Christian principals and although we need to keep church and state separate we do need to keep our principals and values intact. So far, we have done fairly well at this, just look how closely our laws paralell the 10 Commandments. Marriage is between a man and a woman and must be held sacred as such.
-- Posted by Dave Holleran on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 12:22 pm EST

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Justice reigns in the good state of Iowa!!!

Here is the ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court:

http://www.kcci.com/download/2009/0403/19084885.pdf
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 11:35 am EST

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Well said, Matt!

Unfortunately, these people are so whacked out of their minds they honestly feel every word in the bible is truth. They forget it was written by man. The very men that are possibly guilty of every sin imagineable.

They also are not intelligent enough to see the hundreds of contradictions that are illustrated throughout the bible. Which has lead many intelligent people with questions and ponderings. Truth is, what may be alright for you. May not be alright for someone else. The book is all about stories, sins, and life experiences that plagued peoples conscience and life. But not everyone is plagued by the same issues. Everyone is different. DO NOT JUDGE THEM. LIVE AND LET LIVE!

Yet, even their religions have done nothing but be the JUDGE, JURY, and EXECUTIONER throughout history. And they don't question it...

It's unreal......

It's scary......

And then they wonder where terrorism came from.....

Helloooo.....Wake up!!!!!

Uneducated, religious, and faithful people are naive and easily manipulated. Misunderstanding and misteachings has led to Terrorism, Hatred, Bigotry, and Slavery.

The bible even says you can give up your daughters to pay back people you owe. You can offer your daughters into slavery.

Huh? What? A human being is PROPERTY to be TRADED?

Many things in the bible are the very things AMERICA is against. And, someday, homosexuals will have their marriage. It is just a matter of time.

Religion is not the route to all evil. But religion can be just as evil as any man. The VERY BOOK of Religion, THE BIBLE, was written by MAN. Religion can be used to justify the killing or mistreatment of many people. It has been justified in the past. People, obviously, still justify it now if they still support it.

Many religions do not support every word in the bible. But they think our Government should?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

Education > Religion

Faith in yourself. > Faith in God.

Education and Faith in yourself. > Religon and Faith in God.
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 11:21 am EST

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So the majority of our legislation agree's to honor homosexuals equal fruits and rewards at the state level.

And you guys agree with the Governor? A one man stand to Veto it? And waste more of our tax dollars rediscussing it? The one main reason he said he was fighting it was because we have more important issues to discuss. And if he does VETO it. It will be rediscussed. Wasting more time and possibly overthrowing his VETO anyhow.

The right thing to do would be to NOT sign it if he doesn't support it. It will still become law. And he will not have wasted our legislatures time rediscussing this issue like he promised.

This is America. Our forefathers moved here to rid themselves of religious persecution. And all you people do is come here and say what is right and what is wrong. Based on your religion and it's ideals.

GOD NOR JESUS WROTE THE BIBLE. IT WAS WRITTEN BY MAN.

What everyone imagined America to be. You people destroy that possibility with every breath you take.

THIS IS AMERICA.. If you do not like it. And if you want to live under religious persecution. Then move out of America!
-- Posted by None None on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 10:58 am EST

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I believe our legislature has to act with the rights of the individual in mind, not the will of the majority. Rep Helm suggests that a referendum would be appropriate. Would it have been right to prevent women from voting? The will of the people prevented black people from having true equal rights until the US Supreme Court (Brown II) forced adherence to their earlier decision that - "seperate is not equal."

This should not be a religious issue. The people seeking the right to vote may not be part of your church or faith. Our Constitution gives every person the right to follow their religion, if any, in their own way - without interference of the gov't.

Notice: If you are not gay, you will not be forced to be married to another person of the same sex. In addition, you will not be forced to watch the married homosexual couple in the privacy of their home.
-- Posted by Matt Smith on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 10:44 am EST

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The Iowa Supreme Court struck down a ban on same sex marriage this morning.

Perhaps the naysayers and hate mongers are on the wrong side of history?
-- Posted by Mountain Lover on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 10:32 am EST

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Thank goodness Douglas listens to the people! I have always thought that they should put this vote to the people of Vermont... people sitting around a table should NOT decide our future!
-- Posted by Taylor Hall on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 10:08 am EST

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Thank God, there are people who still have the presence of mind to know "right is right and wrong is wrong". I applaud the Governor's decision to "Veto."
-- Posted by Carol Francis on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 8:56 am EST

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Stop the *******. You have a list of these liberals now, vote them out next election cycle.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, 7:48 am EST

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