RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

Fate of Pete the moose still uncertain, but deadline looms



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By SUSAN ALLEN STAFF WRITER - Published: July 26, 2009

The fate of a tame moose named Pete living on an enclosed elk farm in Irasburg remains undecided, with Fish and Wildlife Department officials still negotiating with the farm's owner about what steps to take to rid the property of white-tailed deer and moose living there in violation of state hunting regulations.

Farm owner Doug Nelson, who keeps about 500 imported elk on his 600-acre property for agricultural and hunting purposes, said Friday that he believes the department plans to kill the moose and white-tailed deer living there within the coming weeks. Pete, he said, will be among the animals killed under that scenario.

"They tell me there's no negotiating, put up or shut up," Nelson said, after a meeting with Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Wayne Laroche. "They're going to come up and exterminate them all."

The department's general counsel, David Englander, declined to be specific about any talks under way.

"The department has been and will continue to be diligent with Mr. Nelson to find common ground," Englander said. "It's really not about Pete. It's a much larger issue. How do we deal with the white tail deer and moose in the enclosure?"

The issue came to a head last week after The Times Argus ran photographs of Pete and a brief story on his plight.

Pete has been raised by 73-year-old David Lawrence of Albany, who nursed the then-newborn moose back to health after the animal was badly injured by dogs.

Pete developed an affection for the retired dairy farmer, and now follows Lawrence around when he visits the moose daily with fresh leaves, bananas and an occasional jelly doughnut. Lawrence also checks on the other animals on the farm, with Pete following closely.

Some people, objecting to any plan to kill the tame moose, have written letters to the Time Argus and called the department to call for another solution.

But the problem is fairly straightforward. Nelson's farm is one of two in Vermont granted a "grace" period to allow the hunting of imported elk on the property, but the farm must come into compliance with state regulations by early next year to continue to offer the hunt.

One of the provisions of that permit is that white tailed deer and moose not live among the imported elk to prevent the spread of diseases like chronic wasting disease and tuberculosis from the elk to the non-imported animals. Wildlife officials are trying to keep chronic wasting disease, which is present in other states, out of Vermont.

Nelson admits that the white-tailed deer and moose feed with the imported elk. He said those native wild animals were already on the property when he fenced it in years ago, and he has watched moose jump the fence into the compound since.

"I built the fence to state specs. And I've watched moose jump in there," Nelson said. "You wouldn't ever think so, but I have seen moose jump in there on more than one occasion."

Asked what the options are for Nelson to come into compliance – if killing the animals was the only solution – Englander said, "I don't want to have that conversation right now. It's not something the department has focused on. We are trying to get everybody to the table. We want to find a solution."

Englander said there are limited, specific cases where people have been allowed to keep tame, wild animals.

"There are instances where private citizens can possess wild animals for limited periods of time," he said, noting as examples wildlife rehabilitators who care for injured animals. "There may be other solutions that aren't readily apparent. I wouldn't want to foreclose any other options today," he said.

"The department is going to do what it can" to resolve the dispute, Englander said. "It has been a complex relationship with Mr. Nelson. The dialogue has not always been fruitful."

Nelson would agree.

"I've been operating this place for nine years. We never had a problem, except with Fish and Game," he said. "We own 8,000 acres of land and pay a lot of taxes, and we just think that land is close and dear to our hearts, and we try to make it better. You've got to have some property rights in order to keep it."

Caught in the middle are Lawrence and Pete, with Lawrence fearful that Pete will be exterminated in the coming weeks. Lawrence said he wants Pete taken to a secure location, out of state or possibly in a zoo, to be protected.

"This is just a terrible tragedy and it's going to ruin my whole g*# d@*!med life," he said.








READER COMMENTS


True Vermonter,
I shudder to think of you out and about in my community..
I pray to God I never find out that you are someone I know.. You are closed minded, judgmental, and antagonistic.
-- Posted by justa citizen None on Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 11:08 am EST

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Personal Opinion,

I can not answer your questions in your rant but I can tell you how many people on this comment can not spell the word LICENSE.


ONE
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 6:37 am EST

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Mr. Jacob Miller,
I ask you how many Lisenced Electricions are out there that don't have the first clue what end of a ***** driver to hange onto?

I ask of you how many certified construction workers are out there that have no clue which end of a hammer drives a nail?

I ask of you how many lisenced Doctors are out there that have no clue how to practice medicine?

How many people hold a professional job that have a "Diploma" from a supposedly reputible institute of higher learning and the average Joe has to bail them out daily in order for them to hold a job position?

I know for a fact that there are numerous COLLEGE EDUCATED AND DEGREE HOLDING ENGINEERS I have (as well as others) worked behind on their projects to repair or rebuild so the project was usable or at least functional!

So DO NOT try to tell me that a college degree means anything more than someone had the time and money to put into extra time at school!

From my point of view a good philosophy is trust the opinion of the person who has the most contact with the subject! Talking wildlife, trusty the person who lives with wildlife, not some pencil pushing desk jocky from NYC who has a "college degree"! (or from where ever)
-- Posted by Personal Opinion on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 8:37 pm EST

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What's with all the concern for the deer, elk or moose for that matter? Everyday thousands of head of cattle, sheep, pigs etc are taken to a slaughterhouse to be turned into london broil and big macs. AS long as the meat from these animals is used and not wasted I have no problems. People all over the world eat different things. I've never eaten horse meat (at least I don't think I have) but I'm sure it tastes fine, at least the french seem to like it. So get over naming these critters and serve them up well done with lots of onions.
-- Posted by northstar62 on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 2:23 pm EST

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haaarsh
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 11:09 am EST

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Andrew,
It is farmers like Lawrence that keep Large Animal Vet's in business.
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 8:45 am EST

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Moose season is coming, he would make someone happy with tasty moose meat, i'm just not sure how it would taste seeing as how he has been eating Donuts and Bananas!! Just what they find in the woods, eh!! It's a fricken wild animal, put it a truck and drop it off in the deep woods next to the donut shop and let it go!!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 7:08 am EST

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I would think a 73 year old dairy farmer might know a little bit about how to care for animals. Certainly more knowledge than Jacob. Pete hasn't died from this guys care yet. Maybe the state should keep "it's" deer off of Nelson's land. Leave the old guy and the moose alone.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where the Beef,pork,chicken and even a lot of fish in the store comes from? If you have a problem with Nelson's operation you should consider becoming a vegetarian. I'd much rather be a elk on Nelson's farm than a purdue chicken or a Great Western beef cow stuck in the Union Stock Yards.
-- Posted by ANDREW CHAPLEAU on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 6:49 am EST

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just another make money story for all involved
-- Posted by jerry carleton on Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 1:08 am EST

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OK! Well Pete and whitetail deer jumped IN and out...how many elk have jumped in and out contaminating the wild??? Has anyone checked on this concern??? Probably not. Elk can jump just like moose and deer!!!
-- Posted by donna halliday on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 8:13 pm EST

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"Anyone can rescue a wild animal and release it if thats your goal-its not that hard to give it access to shelter, give it some time with protection from predators and teach it to forage."
RTFOLMAO!
If that were true than this whole situation would not have happened. Lawrence would have let the moose wander off.
Nope, he had to put it in with his buddy's elk. On top of that, he has been feeding a ruminant fruits and doughnuts that contain high levels of sugar. Well he is at it, why not feed it a steak.
Oh, yeah! That's teaching it to forage.

Any other jokes you want to tell me. I have not laughed that hard in awhile.

BTW Nelson's little "murder farm" is no secret unless you have been living under a rock. He has been on WCAX to the Boston Globe. I am quite sure HSUS knows all about him. It would not surprise me that HE planned to kill Pete himself after he got big so he could have mounted him on the wall.
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 6:20 pm EST

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Colleen- it's not a matter of job security, and not just anyone can rehabilitate and release wild animals. Pete, if released, would not survive. He has lost his fear of man and machine. That's a dangerous situation for both Pete and People.

Trained wildlife folk are taught how to rehabilitate while avoiding such travesties, so that wild animals can remain 'wild.' Wildlife folk usually do a helluvalot more than just that, it should be noted.

Now, your typical untrained amateur is doing his best and with great intentions - but sentimentality gets involved. Then you've got yourself a pet.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 6:17 pm EST

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Jacob, thanks for proving my point.

Its a matter of job security for people at these institutions. Anyone can rescue a wild animal and release it if thats your goal-its not that hard to give it access to shelter, give it some time with protection from predators and teach it to forage. But think of all the wildlife specialists who would be out of a job if people figured out this...including the nice folks at UVM who teach these people how to give animals access to shelter, temporary protection from predators and teach them to forage. Its a circle of need- they need a job, here is a job, protect that job.

We like moose. You are talking to a generation who grew up with Bullwinkle, Captain Kangaroos Mr.Moose, Moosehead beer. We don't have an affinity with elk. But, I think the feces is going to hit the fan when it becomes well known that Vermont has a caged animal hunt in the NEK. Now, THATS what people should be really mad about- 500 elk in 600 fenced acres? Talk about fish in a barrel.
-- Posted by Colleen Wright on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 5:37 pm EST

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Ex-vermonter;
If you read the article it is not just the moose but also the whitetail deer located within the enclosure that will be destroyed. And after a few years, so will the elk. He has "grace period" to recoup some losses but ALL the animals will be destroyed according to F&W. So the moose staying on the farm would only buy him a couple of years.
To make a looong story short. The moose and deer are exposed to known carriers(the Elk) of the Chronic Wasting Disease(CWD) prion. Since it is a prion, it is tough to test for( and destroy), mostly done postmortem and is not 100% reliable for results. Can be spread by a carrier not showing outward symptoms much like "mad cow" and "skip" a generation(passed on by birth) before showing itself again. The state has to take this seriously(which it has been REALLY forgiving toward Nelson on the issue.).
Since Pete has already been "artificially" exposed(human intervention) to elk, I am almost 99% sure no other state will allow him to be transported across their lines since all states have passed laws forbidden the transportation of exposed animals.
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 5:34 pm EST

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Jacob, you don't seem to mind putting your opinion out there so I have to assume you have a degree from one of the accredited colleges you mention. I'm curious as to why he is permitted to have the Elk and not the moose. As long as he keeps the moose on his farm it's no more of a danger than the Elk. Maybe if I had a degree in wild life managment I'd know.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 5:00 pm EST

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Colleen,
Where is the B.S. in my statement?
Do not those Colleges and Universities exsist? Yale? You must of at least heard of the University of Vermont..?Here dial this phone number(802-656-4280) and inquire about the human/wildlife interactions and how important it is that you must be a trained rehabilitator. They will be glad to help you out. You might even learn something. Lawrence should have never played god or this situation would have never happened. Once again I will point out what "good intentions" bring like the death of a young bull moose that was suffering from extreme malnutrion brought on by humans feeding it an incorrect diet last year.
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 4:36 pm EST

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Jacob, I feel pretty sure that you have quite a bit of B.S as well.

We like the moose. I don't agree with the mans business, of hunting trapped animals, but if F&W issued him a permit to slaughter elk, then they issued him a permit. Hope there are very few "hunters" who choose to stalk caged animals, but there must be a market for it. But I like moose. When all is said and done, the best solution would be, since this animal does not have survival skills, is to put him into a sheltered situation such as a wildlife refuge, or a zoo. He can come over to my house to stay if he promises not to eat my green beans.

The guy who cages animals to "hunt" them, of course, is not welcome.
-- Posted by Colleen Wright on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 3:05 pm EST

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I love reading all these comments from the "arm chair" wildlife biologists. It is not the F&W dept. you should be blaming but Lawrence and Nelson who created this situation by raising a wild animal and now F&W has to do their job. Lawrence would have been better off to let mother nature take over rather than get involved.
There is a reason why we have LICENSED wildlife rehabilitators in this state. They are TRAINED to raise and release wild animals. I don't think Nelson and Lawrence are trained.
Ms. Burnett is correct, HUMANS killed a young bull moose just last year because they were feeding it food that was not meant for it. I am sure they "thought" they knew what was best.
The article is badly flawed and should have taken input from other wildlife biologists. They would have said the same thing that F&W said.
Ask anyone from the Rubinstein School at UVM, Yales Forestry and Wildlife School, Wildlife Management of Univ. of Colorado, and Environmental Studies at the Univ of Montana.

I am sure one of you "specialists" have at LEAST a B.S. from one of these schools in the field of studies of wildlife management.
-- Posted by Jacob Miller on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 1:18 pm EST

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I stand corrected it does mention about CWD sorry, but that isn't F&W fault that they brought the moose in there.
To me it doesn't sound like Mr. Nelson is willing to work with F&W. F&W are here to help these animals not harm them Mr. Nelson is harming this moose, by feeding people food, remember that moose that was feed not too long ago that dies thanks to humans feeding him. it is in my opinion WRONG for Mr. Nelson to continue to allow hunters in there now that he is feeding the moose, is he feeding the Elk to like the moose, I thought it was illegal in VT to bait animals then hunt them. Hm it seems like Mr. Nelson is in the wrong as well as the other man for feeding them.
-- Posted by Michelle Burnett on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 12:45 pm EST

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Give me a break. Nelson has 600 elk penned up to be killed by anyone with a checkbook and he's soooo concerned about the moose. Not a lot of credibility there.

The moose is dead meat anyway. You release him into the wild and he sidle up to the first human he sees in the woods. Come moose season and that means he will be an easy hunt.

Why is it mean to kill Pete and not the 600 elk on the place? I guess becuase Nelson won't get a check for the carcass.
-- Posted by northstar62 on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 11:15 am EST

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The more I read articles like this the less faith I have in government. The State is a cruel master without any compassion or respect for life liberty or property. There are those among us who say "its the law" or "they're just doing their job" - well that was the excuse used to justify every totalitarian agenda from Genghis Khan to to Pol Pot.
I hope this man wins his case against these FW thugs.
-- Posted by nh forester on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 10:55 am EST

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If the state is worried about the spread of disease where these animals are concerned then they should give Mr. Nelson the option of building higher fences to ensure that all the animals currently on the property can not get out and no other animals could get in and let Pete and the deer live out the rest of there lives in the only home they have ever known.
-- Posted by Valerie Rowe on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 9:36 am EST

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I still don't understand WHY everyone is so upset with F&W, they are not the ones in violation here. Simple solution is for him not to allow him to have hunting on his property anymore then all the elk and moose will be okay. nothing was ever mentioned in the article about CWD.
To me hunting in a fenced in area isn't right as i said before i am a hunter and I would love to shoot a moose one that is wild and I would be able to have my own picture that moose.
Someone mentioned what did they do way back in the olden days? well They left nature alone people didn't raise animals on their property to hunt and they didn't feed the babies they were smart enough to let nature take its course.
Like I said the choice is up to Mr Nelson about Pete's fate.
-- Posted by Michelle Burnett on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 8:06 am EST

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OK so everytime they kill the animals they say that had no other choice because of safety reasons.

WELL NO SAFETY ISSUE HERE FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC

this moose will be dead watch!

sickos!
-- Posted by Leo Porter on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 7:35 am EST

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Comfy, apparently you don't recognize sarcasm well.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 7:06 am EST

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Ex Vermonter, I think maybe we should all hunt your dog and see if you still think hunting down someones pet is a good idea.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 7:04 am EST

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It's simple, the fish and game department should have a drawing to sell 1000 permits to hunt old Pete. Of course all entrants shall pay a twenty dollar fee to have their name entered into the drawing. They've butchered off the deer herd more than once to make a dollar, why not Pete.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 10:31 pm EST

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Seems to me that itis not the idea of CWD spreading or wild game in an enclosed area. It seems to me that the State of Vermont hasn't totaly figured out how to make another dollar off the situation! Clear cut case of all or none!

We are not going to have to wait for CWD to deplete the wild game of the state, The Department of Fish and Wildlife will take care of that in time any way as long as there is a buck to be made!

How did wildlife ever survive before the country got civilized? It's a wonder the indians didn't starve out without our help!
-- Posted by Personal Opinion on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:58 pm EST

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Lets shoot the Pet Moose and the Deer,,thats the Vermont Logic,,and lets give short sentances to Rapist and Pedophiles,,the State is not a Hot Bed of Mental Health!!!
-- Posted by angelo None on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:06 pm EST

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Susan, when you have a high powered rifle for an animal on all 4s that grazes on the grass, that is not sporting either. Go out there and strangle it with your bare hands, that is the only fair way.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 5:08 pm EST

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Who said elk can't jump this so called fence into the wild and spread this disease??? Leave Pete alone!!! He's been there so long now and seems fine and this relationship with this man seems like what this moose and man needs.If your a "true" wildlife person, take a look at the special relationship.That moose is doing no harm to anyone.If your so worried about the disease spreading think about this, that moose and deer jump over the fence, what makes you think elk don't jump over the fence also?
-- Posted by donna halliday on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 2:30 pm EST

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Let the moose go, he will figure it out sooner or later! Chronic wasting disease is not what the wildlife in Vt. need to have brought onto them! Everyone needs to look at the big picture here, not one moose and a few deer! It would be sad to look out your window and see a deer walking in circles having their brains eaten away and then finaly succumbimg to disease! It would be devastating to all wildlife, so something needs to be done before its to late, like it or not!!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 9:31 am EST

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Leave Pete the moose alone How could anyone shoot him.I would pay 20 dollars too for a picture with him
-- Posted by sue Johnson on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 9:18 am EST

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There should be NO hunting in a fenced in area. Yes, it's 600 acres, but, still......
next thing you know, you can pick your anmial, and have someone round it up, and shoot it!! That is NOT hunting!!! I thought only the South did that!!!
-- Posted by Anne S. on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:50 am EST

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The bigger issue than a single moose is chronic wasting diease. If the moose or deer contract this diease while in contact with the elk, it can spread to the wild population. If the owners cannot find a game preseve or a zoo as a new home for the moose, the fish and game dept has no real choice but to put the animal down. It is sad to see but it is better to protect the population as a whole than a single animal.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:47 am EST

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If I read the Article correctly, the choice is up to Mr. Nelson, he can either stop all hunting or have the moose put down. (From what I saw on TV wild animals like deer and moose do not do well being sedated to move them, no sure how true that is) I think that Mr. Nelson should post his land.
I am a hunter and would love to go in the wild to go hunting for moose, however I would never ever consider shooting an animal like these elk or moose.
This isn't the animals fault and Mr. Nelson who really cares about Pete, really needs to think long and hard about what is in Pete's best interest. If he continues to violate his contract with the state and allow hunters to go in their, then most likely Pete won't last someone will oopps I thought that moose was an elk.
This isn't Fish and Game's fault They are only doing their job.
So I will sing a petition for Mr. Nelson to not allow any more hunting on his property.
-- Posted by Michelle Burnett on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:24 am EST

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What am I thinking? THis is a great business opportunity for this guy! I would love to go to Irasburg and have my picture taken with a moose. I would gladly pay $20 to stand there, toss my arm over his neck and smile. I have friends who would do the same. And then we all would pay sales tax on the photo, probably hit the gift shop, buy a pete the moose T, pay more tax, have a beer... this coul dbe a state moneymaker. I would much rather do that than go to a sugarhouse!( No offense, sugarmakers, but to me a moose is more interesting and I have made syrup for years)A Vermont tourist attraction!
-- Posted by Colleen Wright on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 8:00 am EST

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I agree with you all- the moose is now a pet. He could not survive in the wild. If let go, he would be a danger to the public because he would be wanting jelly donuts from passing cars. Just leave him there. Make sure he is not in the hunting part of the farm (not sure if I agree with that hunt part- where is the sportsman in shooting penned elk>) Either that, or put him in a zoo, where he could greet people. Who in their right mind would want to kill a pet? Next they will be coming after my dog.
-- Posted by Colleen Wright on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 7:55 am EST

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You can put my name on that petition to. ELLIE GREENE TINMOUTH VT It is wrong to kill that moose.
-- Posted by Eloise Greene on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 7:36 am EST

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If this person owns 8,000 acres he might just have to post it against hunters/fisherman/snowmobilers/atv's and hikers.Fish and game needs to be aware of certain rights of the public and who pays their wages and come to a sensible agreement with out the needless destruction of wildlife even if the moose is so friendly..Who saved the life of this creature? Wayne Laroche might just look for a job somewhere else..I am not a hunter/fisherman or snowmobiler or atver..
-- Posted by bruce meyer on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 7:25 am EST

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who on Gods green earth, would ever come up with the plan to kill the moose??
This man ownes this property, I just can't believe this could happen.
Vermonters need to join together, and sign a petition, in favor of the moose, and it's owner. You have my vote, just put it down in writing.Carole Jean Vt born and bred
-- Posted by MO on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, 3:58 am EST

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