RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

Everyone's welcome to celebrate as gay couples wed



The Rev. Erica Baron of the Unitarian Universalist Church in Rutland will be performing same-sex marriages after the law allowing them goes into effect Tuesday.

PHOTO BY VYTO STARINSKAS

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By DANIEL BARLOW
VERMONT PRESS BUREAU - Published: August 30, 2009

MONTPELIER - A lot of celebrating will be going on in Vermont this week.

When the clock ticks past midnight early Tuesday, a number of same-sex couples across the state are expected to tie the knot when it becomes legal.

But besides the weddings, other sorts of celebrations are planned this week - ones commemorating the institution of marriage, for both straight and gay couples, and others celebrating the simple fact that gays and lesbians now have the right, at least in Vermont and a handful of other states, to marry the person they love.

"We're having all-day-long celebrations of marriage at both our churches," said the Rev. Erica Baron, who has two Unitarian Universalist congregations, one in Rutland and one in Bennington. "We'll be open for gay and lesbian civil union couples who want to get married and straight couples who want to renew their vows."

But Vermont is not expecting a rush to the altar.

The landscape has changed since 2000, when lawmakers passed the civil union legislation, making Vermont the first in the nation to offer some sort of legal recognition for same-sex couples. Gays and lesbians from across the country - but especially New England - flocked here.

According to Vermont records, more than 400 civil unions were performed in the first month, and the total reached 7,000 by the end of that year. More than 70 percent of the couples were from out of the state.

But other states have since gone further. Massachusetts led the pack by allowing same-sex couples to start marrying in 2005. Connecticut, New Hampshire and Iowa later followed suit.

"We've got about a dozen gay marriages happening at the lodge between Sept. 1 and the end of the year," said Willie Docto, co-owner of the Moose Meadow Lodge in Waterbury. "I think a lot of people have already gotten married in Massachusetts or Connecticut over the last few years. ... It was a special thing when civil unions came along in 2000."

"We're not expecting a huge rush," said Greg Trulson, Docto's partner in business and a civil union. "We're not the only place that gay and lesbian couples can have their union legally recognized anymore."

The couple opened the Waterbury bed and breakfast in 1998. Docto and Trulson were joined in a civil union on Nov. 10, 2001. They plan to marry this year on the anniversary of that day.

"It's one less date to remember," joked Docto. Their civil union ceremony was small, with about 30 guests. Their wedding may be smaller - probably them and a justice of the peace. "A lot of our friends are getting married this year too. ... There are two or three other couples we know with plans for ceremonies."

The wedding ceremonies may be smaller, but gay and lesbian Vermonters still will be celebrating the historic date.

The Vermont Gay Tourism Association, a collective of 30 gay-friendly businesses around the state, plans a Sunday family picnic in Waterbury and a Tuesday night dance party in Essex. (The picnic will feature Rep. Jason Lorber, D-Burlington, who works as a comedian when not at the Statehouse, as part of its entertainment.) Tickets for both are still available.

Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream will join in by renaming its "Chubby Hubby" flavor "Hubby Hubby" for September.

Even if Vermont isn't the first state, there are still plenty of reasons for gay and lesbian couples to come here, Trulson said. The state is still one of the top three wedding destinations in the country, he said.

A University of California study from March suggested that if Vermont legalized gay marriage, it would see an additional $30.6 million in economic activity over three years. That business boost would create 700 jobs and generate $3.3 million in state and local taxes, the study found.

It remains to be seen, especially in an economic recession, if those numbers will bear out.

"If they are not having their wedding in Vermont, they are coming here for their honeymoon," Trulson said.

The daylong wedding ceremonies at Baron's Unitarian Universalist churches are scheduled for Saturday in Rutland and the following day in Bennington. She said she plans to marry only same-sex couples who already have a civil union because she knows they went through premarital counseling.

She said slots are still available for couples who want to marry or renew their vows. About one-quarter of the couples who have signed up are straight, she said.

"This isn't just about gay and lesbian couples," she said. "Everyone can find joy in this day."

Trulson said he has noticed that the same-sex couples he knows are taking marriage very seriously. Straight couples can sometimes be cavalier about the rite - Britney Spears is a prime example - but Trulson said many same-sex couples, who will be marrying for the first time, are taking time to write their own vows and create a day that truly represents their union.

"There won't be a lot of people saying, 'till death do us part,'" he said. "They're going to share their love with their friends and family as witnesses. ... It's going to be very emotional."



Daniel.Barlow@timesargus.com








READER COMMENTS


The "Time issue" or "Waste of time" because nothing is being gained.

That "Idea" was used by your beloved Rep. Governor, as well. Then he VETO'D it just to waste more time. And he ADMITTED to knowing they were likely to overturn his VETO.

So, doesn't that contradict itself? If time was really the issue. Then why waste more time?

Point is, he wanted to make his statement. His ground. His position. Just like the others and the reason it was being discussed in the first place.

I could address your whole post but it's late and I need to get to bed....but I want to get this straight.

Are you saying that the Governor should have not vetoed the bill because "it was going to pass anyway?" Isn't that just a little bit retarded? Think about that for a minute...I'm not even going to elaborate on it anymore than that. And for the record, overturning the veto was NOT a slam-dunk. It took Shap putting down the gavel and some strong-arming of some Democrats who were slow to "see the light" and we're told if they didn't vote for it then any bill that had their name on it in the future would not receive any Dem support. That's really beside the point though. Maybe i'll tackle the second part of your post tomorrow.....
-- Posted by David Randall on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 11:42 pm EST

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The "Time issue" or "Waste of time" because nothing is being gained.

That "Idea" was used by your beloved Rep. Governor, as well. Then he VETO'D it just to waste more time. And he ADMITTED to knowing they were likely to overturn his VETO.

So, doesn't that contradict itself? If time was really the issue. Then why waste more time?

Point is, he wanted to make his statement. His ground. His position. Just like the others and the reason it was being discussed in the first place.



As for your 2nd paragraph.

I actually disagree. I think being gay is natural in its own right. Forcing children and people to live unnatural for themselves is wrong.

No one is forcing GAY on you. No one is FORCING you to be gay.

It's ok to be disgusted with any thought of two men. Trust me. The slight thought, of what happens behind closed doors, does disgust me. I'm not gay.

But on the flipside. Two beautiful women touching eachother is greatly accepted in our society. Even among those that despise gays.

Personally, I came to the consensus that it can't be OK one way, and wrong the other. I'm not a hypocrite. I had to decide, for myself, is all wrong or is all right.

I understand conservative man can lie to themselves and allow one and not the other. They are hypocrites. "Do as I say not as I do." and/or "I'll accept this since it excites me but I won't accept the other."

Conservative man is just a joke. It's no different than terrorism. They have tried to control man with fear for centuries.

Conservatives are losing ground. Conservatives have oral sex which is considered sodomy in their ideals. Conservatives have sex in other positions than missionary which is considered sodomy in their ideals.

Who said it was alright to stop following their ideals? And it was ok to do these things? Who is it that needs to say, "Gay is OK" before conservatives will accept it?

If you can't understand the question. Then you don't get it. Conservatives have been living a LIE. They live with the "Do as I say not as I do" attitude.

People are sick of it. People have realized the truth. People will not sit around and wait for conservatives to "Accept" something before society will accept it. People are standing up for themselves and demanding equality.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 10:32 pm EST

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If you are against gays. Answer these questions:
What are you afraid of, if they are allowed to get married?
Are you religious? What Religion do you follow? Why?
If you are religious: Who has the authority to change what is ok and what is not?
If you are religious: Why does that person have authority to change something that is supposedly sacred?
If you are religious: Did you know that many ideals/laws/morals have changed throughout the years?
If you are religious: Did you know that they change to accomodate more people? So more people will come? Do you think it has anything to do with control, power, and greed?
How does their marriage affect your life?
Why do you think it affects your life?
Why do you think it's wrong?
Is your reasoning justifiable?
Does a lifetime bond with someone even need to be sexual?
Then why is this bond questioned when it is gay?
Many say it's not natural and they cannot procreate:
Why is it ok for other marriages to take place with no children in their future?
Conservative man has labeled it deviant and immoral:
Why do you think it is immoral?
Why does conservative man get to change his morals and ideals to suit himself/herself?
Why can they deny the same to others?
P.S. It would be nice to see a reply with understandable information. Something without bigotry and religious doctrine. Is someone capable?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 1:16 am EST


As someone that opposes(d) gay marriage I will attempt to answer some of your questions CF...even though reading your posts makes me want to slam my head on my desk repeatedly. Half of your questions and statements contradict others so I will not address them individually. Let me put it in a nutshell for you. Most of the resistance to the "gay marriage movement" was timing....and necessity or the lack thereof. Changing the name of civil union to marriage did not grant one single right or privilege from the government besides said name change. It was completely inappropriate especially considering that the legislature had to come back for "overtime" to finish budget issues because they spent so much time on the gay marriage issue. I guess they can't "chew gum and walk" at the same time after all.

Here's an analogy for you....let's say the "Johnson's" down the street regularly eat feces for their meals...cat, dog, human...it doesn't really matter. Now am I going to say that the Johnson's shouldn't be able to send their kids to public school or utilize all the things that we enjoy as tax paying citizens? No. Am I going to think that the Johnson's are sick and need help? You betcha. Am I going to let my kids go over and spend the night and eat dinner at the Johnson's? Not in a million years. Fact is I could care less what the Johnson's eat as long as they don't try and push it on everyone else and try and convince everyone else that it is okay. Live and let live. Not a great analogy but hopefully you get the picture. Now go try yourself a **** sandwich.
-- Posted by David Randall on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 9:56 pm EST

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A lot of ignorance posted by people hiding behind anonymity.

I'll repeat my favorite post, which is still being proved by many of them:

"Education, not race, best predicted support for gay marriage"
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 12:11 pm EST

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I suppose the arguement that you need psychological help could be made too None None.....

By the content of your post, it's not even worth debating with you, which I suppose is ok all in all.
-- Posted by Dave None on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 9:23 am EST

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People who don't choose to breed still get married.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 7:50 am EST

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Firedog

Native Americans are a Race and or culutre and not a lifestyle CHOICE. This country is a Republic based on the desire and needs of the majority voted by representative of elected officials.
Your example of Native American being not normals is about as asinine statement as you have yet to make.

Native Americans can not make a choice to be European. They are what they are, period. Gays have a choice and have chosen to be what they are and only 2% of the entire populations makes that choice the other 98 to 98.5 choose to marry the opposite gender.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 6:49 am EST

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If you are against gays. Answer these questions:

What are you afraid of, if they are allowed to get married?

Are you religious? What Religion do you follow? Why?

If you are religious: Who has the authority to change what is ok and what is not?

If you are religious: Why does that person have authority to change something that is supposedly sacred?

If you are religious: Did you know that many ideals/laws/morals have changed throughout the years?

If you are religious: Did you know that they change to accomodate more people? So more people will come? Do you think it has anything to do with control, power, and greed?

How does their marriage affect your life?

Why do you think it affects your life?

Why do you think it's wrong?

Is your reasoning justifiable?

Does a lifetime bond with someone even need to be sexual?

Then why is this bond questioned when it is gay?


Many say it's not natural and they cannot procreate:

Why is it ok for other marriages to take place with no children in their future?

Conservative man has labeled it deviant and immoral:

Why do you think it is immoral?

Why does conservative man get to change his morals and ideals to suit himself/herself?

Why can they deny the same to others?


P.S. It would be nice to see a reply with understandable information. Something without bigotry and religious doctrine. Is someone capable?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 1:16 am EST

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None none... water living mammels are not fish.. just a little education for ya. and look up giraffs, bottle nosed dolphins and camels. a few examples of mammels that do actually have a same-sex partner for most of their lives. do a little research. please. then come back and post. here are a few places to start....livescience.com has a great artcle on dolphins, seedmagazine.com has a large list of gay animals (in doing research i just now learned that rams (read male sheep) that do not have same sex relations become outcasts) and the examiner.com has a very informative article on gay giraffs. go on, do some reading. oh, and since you stated that since homosexuality is only in 2% of the US population, and are therefore not normal, does that make native americans not normal or a minority??
-- Posted by firedog on Thu, Sep 3, 2009, 12:17 am EST

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None None,

Have you never seen a male dog humping another male dog? Or even a female dog hump a female dog? Or what about a female dog humping a male dog?

Never? Really?

Many mammals do it and other creatures do. It's a way of establishing dominance in the animal kingdom.


Animals:
It's hard to look at the animal kingdom and compare them to humans. Most of the animal kingdom, disregarding a few animals (Rabbits, mice.. etc), are only focused on sexual feelings during certain times of the year. They don't fornicate like we do. (Like deer in rut.)

Wild animals are especially dangerous during these times of the year. Even Zoo animals and well treated wild animals have been known to be out of control during this period.

(Guess you could consider it similar to the rage of jealousy in humans.)



Humans:
I think it's simple for gay people as it is for anyone. I don't know for sure since I'm not gay.

But I think they feel attracted to. They feel comfort with. And eventually they have sexual encounters with people.

They just happened to have these feelings and emotions, THE SAME FEELINGS AS EVERYONE DOES, with the same gender. That's where the difference lies.

They are also strong enough to understand these feelings. And to act upon these feelings. They don't hide them. They don't lie to everyone about how they feel. They don't lie to their future spouse, accepted by society, and live an unhappy life. These people have accepted their feelings.

(And I think they should be rewarded for that. I can't imagine anything worse than living unhappily with someone and find out years later it is because they were gay. Why do that to yourself or anyone? Be honest with yourself.)

These adults are consenting, feel comfort with eachother, are attracted to eachother, are happy with eachother, and are happy making eachother happy.

Then who has the right to question it?

(Society, like you, would rather have them lie about it. You would rather hide the truth. You would rather have people live a lie than to allow them to find god and true happiness. This is what conservative man has tried to do for centuries. Conservative man has also tried to KILL and MURDER all free-thinking women. This isn't a lie.. 100's of thousands have been murdered by "The Church".

Conservative man wanted to keep woman as a "pet". Not an equal. Think that is a lie? Woman's Suffrage is still unaccepted at the Vatican. Women still have no rights in that country. Since it is considered it's own country.)"

Some people wanted direction. Conservative, controlling man stood up and started laying down the ideals. People who shared similar beliefs followed suit. As more and more of their ideals were accepted. It became the ideals of the society, it became religion, and later it became law.

Laws that were merely broken by many wealthy citizens, priests, Romans, and others since beginning of written history. Some people claim. "What are laws if they are not meant to be broken?"


You know what is funny.....

Conservative man thinks oral sex = sodomy. And any position other than missionary = sodomy.

So, I'm sure 90 percent of all conservative man has committed sodomy. But they think it's accepted now and it's ok.... lol. So what's the difference? Can't it someday be just as ok for gays as it is for conservative man to give up on his OLD ideals?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 11:42 pm EST

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where is SENATOR FLOGGIN' FLANAGAN?

where is that pervert/
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 9:48 pm EST

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Dave None

You are right I do not accept gays and I do not accept pedophiles and I do not accept Child molestors and I do not accept rapist, I do not accept beastility, or a lot of other deviat behavior.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 6:15 pm EST

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Wow! Firedog a bit ignorant aren't you?

Show me you reference that state EVERY single species including fish have Gays? Are you Nuts! Which of those have Gay Mating for life? or doyou refer to once or twice and is it really Gay? Gay is a choice. True transgendered may be a mistake, but if Gays are not transgendered, then they must be making the choice to be what they are.

I love how you defend less than 2 percent of the population as being normal when in fact it is the other 98%. I thought in another thread you were all preaching democracy. ROFLMAO

They need medical help and not a marriage license.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 6:12 pm EST

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My favorite post:
"Education, not race, best predicted support for gay marriage"

That has been amply demonstrated here again and again.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 11:12 am EST

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I love it when you folks call me names and berate me.
You guys should watch a few of Rev. Fred's sermons. He's almost as entertaining as you!
And sorry, I'm not leaving anytime soon.
I'm gonna stay right here to observe and comment on all the supidity.
Its sooooo much fun!
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 9:59 am EST

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None None - I feel sorry for you having such a closed mind that you can't conceive of a same sex couple sharing an identical relationship that a hetrosexual couple does.

Hopefully you can open up your thought process to consider concepts that lie outside your moral set.
-- Posted by Dave None on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 8:27 am EST

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Man, it's the weirdest thing... I woke up this morning after one full day of gay marriages in Vermont and discovered -- to my utter shock and surprise -- that Civilization As We Know It did NOT end overnight!

Strange, huh?
-- Posted by That Guy on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 7:23 am EST

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HAY YA'LL haven't you read the fine print below? comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments will be removed from this site.
it also states, they will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, soooooooooo, is anyone speaking nasty about anyone, or using
(f'ed) profanity, hey editor, or who ever is in charge, what say??????
-- Posted by MO on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 4:03 am EST

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wow none none... a bit ignorant arent we? do a little research. Homosexuality has been found in EVERY species of land mammel and several of the water dwelling ones as well. now, if male-female mating is found in nature, it is natural, why does this not hold out for same-sex relations?
as to the "Gay Gene". it is indeed a myth. just like almost everyother personality trait, it is based upon more than one gene. but, if you like, look somewhere around the 7th, 8th and 10th chromosones. More than 60% (higher than law of averages would allow)of homosexuals have the same, or similar pattern of genes here. or is that going to be too much research and science for you?
-- Posted by firedog on Wed, Sep 2, 2009, 12:22 am EST

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What that study did not reveal was how much revenue Vermont would lose if Gay Marriage was passed. They seemed to only count what the gays wer eto bring in and not what we would lose in Tourism or from people fed up with this state and just moving out.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 7:10 pm EST

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CF

When you say "Allow to be who they are" I feel I need to correct you, it is NOT who they are it is WHAT they are.

Unless you have scientific proof that being gay is genetic, which none exsists or you have medical proof that it is a third gender, which I have yet to see any at all. It has to be a mental disorder. That would signal a need for treatment and not a need for a license to marry.

Would you grant a Marriage License to a 60 Year old man who has the sexual desire for a 15 year old? That would be an adult in Vermont, since the Jammy Lee Savage incident many years ago. Understand that I did not say LOVE for a 16 year old, because I do not believe Gays ar ein love either, unless you consider a simple love for a pet or a love for food or a day off, would equate the love that a man and woman would have to commit themsleves to a raising a family and having a totally natural relationship. Ther eare many levels of love and it seems that some here want to make the love of gays to be the same as the love between a man and woman. Sorry, I do not agree.

Gays shouldnot have the benefits designed for a heterosexual family any more than pedophiles need a license to practice.

We will wait and see in the next election what happens and this Gay Marriage is a very easy law to change, it just has to happen in the NEXT General Assembly to do so and when we vote most that are currently in, it should not be a problem.

As far as allowing them to practice their lifestyle in the privacy of their homes, fine, break out the whips and leather and do as you wish. As far as the right to adopt and marry, I have a problem and will do my best to over turn this silly law.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 7:05 pm EST

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http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090901/articles/909019947&tc=yahoo

"Education, not race, best predicted support for gay marriage"
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 6:38 pm EST

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"A University of California study from March suggested that if Vermont legalized gay marriage, it would see an additional $30.6 million in economic activity over three years. That business boost would create 700 jobs and generate $3.3 million in state and local taxes, the study found."

................and here's the REAL reason Vermont law was changed!
-- Posted by John Linardy on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 8:52 am EST

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Ha hahahahahahahahaha.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 8:30 am EST

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I love threads like this.

All of the "liberal" posts look like they were written by professionals with college degrees and IQs above 80.

All of the "conservative" posts look like they were written by angry brain-damaged juvie offenders on work-release programs. (These are also the people calling others "morons" and "idiots", among other horribly misspelled words.)

Don't believe me? Go back and read these again.

Good stuff!
-- Posted by That Guy on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 8:24 am EST

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I suppose True Vermonter doesn't understand sarcasm. You're pretty good with puns though... Nice job!

Congrats to all the couples now able to get married!
-- Posted by Dave None on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 8:22 am EST

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Hey Comfy, How did you end up on earth anyway? I suppose the stork dropped you off from mars right!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 7:27 am EST

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Today is the Big Day, how exciting, its opening day of Bear Season! As far as Gay Marriage goes, Embearassing!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 7:18 am EST

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"No one gives a rat's a$$ what goes on behind closed doors among consenting adults. The objection is the flaunting of perverse behavior in our public schools and community churches."
Don't all of the people flaunting their heterosexual behavior by getting married count too? I mean, if they kept it behind closed doors and were secretive about it, I guess it would be okay, but do they really have to shove it down our throats by getting married and breeding so much? It's offensive I tell you!
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 2:56 am EST

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Arguing with a liberal is like arguing with a wall......except that walls serve a purpose.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:37 pm EST

Did anyone else notice that this line was stolen straight (no pun intended) from Barney Frank? Hilarious.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 2:48 am EST

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I am curious...what team does the Rev Erica play on?
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, 1:15 am EST

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"No one gives a rat's a$$ what goes on behind closed doors among consenting adults. The objection is the flaunting of perverse behavior in our public schools and community churches. Venues once safe for young, impressionable children seeking direction in a confusing world. Children often from a single parent household lacking a positive, male role model.

No one wants their child to be gay. Yet our liberal representatives allow such misfits to publicly force their immoral values upon us. Us who have the common etiquette to keep our personal values within our homes and guide our children as we see fit."


WHAT!?!

LOL...

Simple comeback to this.

You say it's bad to allow them to be who they are.

And it's better to MAKE them be something they are not.

I say the opposite is better. Allow people to find their own sexuality. Allow them to be who they are. Allow them to find happiness. Allow them to find their path to salvation.

Isn't that what life is about?

Why does conservative man want EVERYONE to continue living in the closet?

What are they afraid of?

Why are they angry?

Why can't they let other people live their own lives?

Why must they feel the need to control others?

Can any conservatives here answer these questions?
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:40 pm EST

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"I have to laugh when morons use the word : "Homophobe". "Phobia" is a fear of something. Since when is anyone afraid of a gay person?????????? No one cares what two consenting adults do with each other. What people care about, and what irritates them, is when a tiny minority of the population manipulates their warped views on the entire population. Arguing with a liberal is like arguing with a wall......except that walls serve a purpose."

-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:37 pm EST


Just because someone is gay. Doesn't mean they are little, sissy's, and weak.

Your true colors show brightly. Congratulations! You have earned a new label/name! If you don't know what that label is. Go back to school!



What warped view?

The Churches?

Have you ever had sex in any other position than missionary? If so, you have committed SODOMY according to many conservatives.

Have you ever had oral sex? If so, you have committed SODOMY according to many conservatives.

So, if SODOMY is so bad and so immoral. Then why do THE MAJORITY commit sodomy now?

Who get's to choose what becomes O.K. and what continues to be frowned upon?


Do you get the point? Smart Thinking?

Point = THE WALL HAS BEEN COMING DOWN FOR CENTURIES!

Conservatives have been playing the: "Do as I say not as I do" for so long no one can keep a straight face when they try and enforce rules or morals upon others.

It's like a Playboy. Think about it. A man having many mistresses and women in his life, even when married, may be frowned upon by some in society. But many others, if not the majority, actually idolize them or want to get with them. (But still frowned upon if a woman acts similarly.)

Oh yeah, isn't that immoral? Isn't that against the bible? Isn't that against God? That's what it says. But society acts differently, Why? (Lust)

Again, the wall has been coming down for centuries. People are no longer afraid to be who they are. Many are even respected and idolized for being "supposedly immoral" and who they are.



What about the American Dream? = Greed! (Right?) Everyone wants to be a CEO or Board member. Least amount of work and earn the most.


Majority has obesity problems. (Gluttony)


When I think of the bible and Jesus. I think of the simple lessons. And I understand them to be truth in my life.

The tons of other chapters, inserts, and ideas = conservative man add-ons and insecurities.

We know it to be true. It's written in history. Religion has always been political. And when conquered countries were being converted to their victors religion. The victors would adopt ideas and teachings to accomodate the to-be-converted. It made it more appealing and easier for them to accept.

This is your religion past Jesus' simple idea's. Many countries idea's and ideals thrown on paper and called "The word of God."

Don't believe it?

Who wrote the bible? Who edited the bible? Who edited the new testaments? Who REWROTE the new testaments?

Oh yeah, man! (Not saying the whole bible is junk for everyone. Just saying that I believe most of it to be junk, for me. You may think what you like.)

Many have faith in the book in it's entirety.

I have faith in man and his search for corruption, control, power, lust, and greed. Therefor I have faith that Jesus' words have been added to, manipulated, and reinvented to satisfy early, conservative man.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:32 pm EST

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Right on Major TP!!!The 2 gay women on channel 3 news tonight where asked, what are the 2 most important reasons why you want to be married, answer.ahhhhh, benifeits and ahhhhhhhhh we want to be like everyone else, not once was it about love, money baby and the right to feel like the rest of us, so lame it made me laugh at the answer, was that the best they could come up with? I actually felt sorry for them!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 7:47 pm EST

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"When there are two gays why does one act STRAIGHT?"

Um... how do you mean that? You mean one of them has sex with women? They don't. Your question would appear to demonstrate what you know about gay people: zip.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 7:42 pm EST

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Smart (what a misnomer!) thinking:

Obviously you don't know the definition of homophobia:
unreasoning fear of OR ANTIPATHY TOWARD homosexuals and homosexuality",[2] "fear of OR CONTEMPT FOR lesbians and gay men"

It is equivalent to racism and anti-Semitism in the way those are directed towards other races or Jews.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 7:40 pm EST

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Well, I think you two are the morons because you didn't answer my question.

When there are two gays why does one act STRAIGHT?

There is nothing normal about a Gay and whether you accept them or you do not, does not mean that everyone has to agree with you and I sure don't.

Marriage has never been about the unity of the same gender only in the Insane Liberal World does that happen and then there is the transgendered attention getters who want their very own bathroom so people don't pick on them for being very cponfused at 16.

Why can't a 60 year old man marry a 15 year old in Vermont? At 15 you are an adult, so what is the problem?
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:53 pm EST

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I have to laugh when morons use the word : "Homophobe". "Phobia" is a fear of something. Since when is anyone afraid of a gay person?????????? No one cares what two consenting adults do with each other. What people care about, and what irritates them, is when a tiny minority of the population manipulates their warped views on the entire population. Arguing with a liberal is like arguing with a wall......except that walls serve a purpose.
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:37 pm EST

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Nonenone one, You are a lunatic. I'll bet you are also another oxygen wasting liberal of which who's party is nothing more than a noxious plague that is infecting our country. Moron!
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:31 pm EST

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None None,

I saw Sarah Palin run for Vice President.....that doesn't make her smart.

I once saw a picture of Teddy Roosevelt in a Indian Head Dress....that doesn't make him an Indian.

I once saw a straight acting man...that doesn't make him straight.

I once saw a effeminate man...that doesn't make him gay.

-----For Pete sake, grow up
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:27 pm EST

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When there are two gay men, why does one act straight?
When there are two Gay women, why does one act straight.

I guess straight is the norm, now isn't it? Otherwise, why does one of the gays in the couple have to act straight? ROFLMAO

The GOP isn't a dying party, we are just waiting for the next election to show you how well people remember from BOTH sides of the Political Parties.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:02 pm EST

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Again, congratulations to all of the people who struggled to get this one step closer to equal rights. And thanks to all of the people who supported them simply because it was the right thing to do.
Tomorrow will indeed be a joyous and proud day for Vermont. My thoughts and prayers will be with all of tomorrows newly married couples that you may find endless joy in the committment that you are making to one another.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 5:34 pm EST

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Smart Thinking,

Getting married involves LEGAL CONSENT FROM BOTH INVOLVED.....MORON!

Sooooooo, if you can get legal consent from your turtle, then more power to you!

It's soooo nice to go after these stupid people.
.
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 4:59 pm EST

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Palin is Sweet,
Your voice is one of some 305 million in the USA, minus those who are too young to participate, minus those who are not interested, minus those who otherwise cannot participate in our democracy.
In terms of ideology, we are all predominately aware of liberals, moderates, and the conservativisms of the farther right (the more rational conservatives have been drowned by those on the other side of the point where extremism begins, where you get into the pseudoconservativism). There are more ideologies, some of which we encounter occasionally, but you may find that your definition of "liberal" is a bit inaccurate. This is because many far-right ideologues have adopted a strategy to attack their "thems" by categorizing them all into certain terms, such as "enemies," "liberals," "leftists," and just about any term that reflects their emotional problems (projection); that is, they respond to their anxieties by making, or trying to make, their "thems" look as bad as their own internal anxiety is making them feel. (You are either with us or against us; There is us and there is them; we are righteous and they are wicked.) Of course most of these anxious people are unaware of the sources of their anxieties, and this is a key ingredient of creating extremism - say things that will make the stupid people extremely anxious. This happens on the right and on the far left of the political spectrum and this is how Adolph Hitler and Mussolini won over their followers.

305 million souls, minus the nonparticipators, is a lot of competition, ey? To find the truth? Keep looking, but more with logic than emotion. Palin may be sweet, but she is only human, too. Aren't humans quite limited in their intellectual capacities? Some moreso than others?
-- Posted by Robert New on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 4:11 pm EST

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I love homophobes, they are so entertaining with their biblical rants like anyone actually believes in that crap anymore. I especially like true vermonters "real man" speech like he would know what a real man is.

The only joke and embarrassment is you.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 1:21 pm EST

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....I can see it now...Vermont's future: Mr Jones and his pet turtle march up the aisle to be joined in holy wedlock.........
-- Posted by Smart Thinking on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 12:57 pm EST

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Major Taxpayer,

YOUR lifestyle is FORCED on me and my family daily!

Hey what's good for the gander is good for the gander and if you don't like it either svck it up or move!
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 12:05 pm EST

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"No one wants their child to be gay."

Until parents are indifferent to the orientation of their children, we still have work to do. Statements like this show that, for all the claims that there is no homophobia at work or gay people are just whiny, homophobia is in fact alive and well in Vermont and elsewhere.

Fortunately the relatively small number of homophobes is vastly overrepresented here on the comment boards.

Children should be encouraged to be who they are: gay, straight, male, female, trans, whatever.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 12:02 pm EST

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"No one wants their child to be gay."

Until we get to the point where everyone wants their child to be who they are, we still have work to do. This is exactly the kind of nonsense that proves that homophobia is alive and well in Vermont. Fortunately, the anti-gay wackos are much better represented in these comments than they are among real Vermonters.
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 12:00 pm EST

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re: "It is curious that those who claim to want government out of their lives also want government umpiring what can and cannot go on in bedrooms or personal relationships."

No one gives a rat's a$$ what goes on behind closed doors among consenting adults. The objection is the flaunting of perverse behavior in our public schools and community churches. Venues once safe for young, impressionable children seeking direction in a confusing world. Children often from a single parent household lacking a positive, male role model.

No one wants their child to be gay. Yet our liberal representatives allow such misfits to publicly force their immoral values upon us. Us who have the common etiquette to keep our personal values within our homes and guide our children as we see fit.
-- Posted by Major Taxpayer on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 11:01 am EST

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Gonzo - Read a little about this organization you want to protest with....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

If you agree with these freaks then you should consider a move.
-- Posted by Dave None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 10:05 am EST

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I don't know what god Dr. Gonzo is worshipping. My god loves all of his creations, even the ones that pump themselves full of hatred. I don't know how he manages it, but then I suppose that is why a god is a god and I am not a god, only a person who recognizes other peoples human rights as well as my own.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 10:03 am EST

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Dr. Gonzo - You are a sick person. Please leave with the Westboro group and don't come back.

Vermont will be a much better place without the likes of you.
-- Posted by Dave None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:55 am EST

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It is curious that those who claim to want government out of their lives also want government umpiring what can and cannot go on in bedrooms or personal relationships.
-- Posted by Ray Makul on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:44 am EST

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Dr. Gonzo....another latent homo
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:39 am EST

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True Vermonter,

Thanks for proving my point!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:32 am EST

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Uh... OK.

Are there any anti-gay marriage Real Men of Genius here who DON'T come off like subjects of the latest episode of "Cops" (the ones running down the street in their boxers and a wife-beater, can of Schlitz in hand, screaming profanities at their neighbors and/or "baby mamas")?

Anyone at all?
-- Posted by That Guy on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 9:01 am EST

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Vermont was made a JOKE a LONG time before Gay Marriage.
Thanks to our Lawmakers. The HYPOCRITES who are in Montplier
The ones who Listen, but donot HEAR!!!
N.N.', Notta, Nooze, Comfy, Juliet are Trolls,, Tragic, Pitiful !!!
-- Posted by angelo None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 8:38 am EST

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NN#1,Noozereder,and the rest of you OODBALLS, Real men don't like things put where it don't belong, pretty simple you fudge you know whats! And let me know when you have some kids that will keep the world going, good luck with that to! Also, Can any of you tell me where i can but some a$$ less jeans for gay men, i need a pair for my hallowen float, Those are REAL SPECIAL! Thanks for making Vt. a JOKE and a EMBARRASSMENT! Seriously!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 8:10 am EST

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That's all I can say is welcome to the world of higher paid taxes for being married, shared resources, divorce court, alimony etc.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 8:06 am EST

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Yeah, it's weird how it's mostly men complaining about gays. They'll type their ignorant rants and then go throw in a DVD with girl-on-girl porn.
-- Posted by noozereeder on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:38 am EST

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Why are 99% of the complainers of gay marriage supposedly "straight men'?

Do you guys have homosexual feelings and feel guilty or ashamed of them so you attack the people that remind you of yourselves?

Have you had a homosexual experience and don't know what to do those those feelings so you attack people instead of dealing with your feelings like an impotent school boy?

And usually the women who are complaining about gays are usually some fat warthog and they are just jealous.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 6:15 am EST

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Palin, actually, there are many more liberals than 2. just most of us choose to ignore your posts. it is funy though, watching you scream at others for doing just what you do. shouting insults and derogitory comments. but when someone else does it.. watch out! PIS is going to point it out! oooohhh... scary!
-- Posted by firedog on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 5:08 am EST

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I am thankful my comments draw the attention of the 2 liberals...Apparently they didnt like my comments, hence the nasty retorts..If we could hear them instead of read them i am sure it would be in the typical loud shrill liberal voice like bernie and howard the screamer...why do libs have to scream?
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 12:06 am EST

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Juliet,,,you TRULY are a BOTTOM FEEDER !!!!
-- Posted by angelo None on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 10:37 pm EST

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This state deserves the bankruptcy facing it.
-- Posted by Casey Jennings on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 10:08 pm EST

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I LOVE THIS GAME, CAN I PLAY TOO!!!


If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)


11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

We should fear God (Matthew 10:28)

We should love God (Matthew 22:37)

There is no fear in love (1 John 4:18)

THIS LAST ONE IS A CLASSIC!!! LOL

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. (Deuteronomy 23:1)
-- Posted by doc johnson None on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 9:48 pm EST

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"your god have pity on erica's soul?" You and your god wouldn't know a soul if you fell over it!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 9:28 pm EST

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Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
God have pity on Erica Baron's soul.
-- Posted by Major Taxpayer on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 9:09 pm EST

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Celebrate? Such a pity. A pure waste of good men.
-- Posted by Fae McGee on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 8:04 pm EST

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Angelo, VT is not a REFERENDUM state and we don't get to vote on which humans qualify for human rights. The people, however, had every chance to be heard. Everyone, for and against equality, had the chance to speak in Montpelier and many people did speak. Those who could not be there were free to contact their representatives by telephone, email or snail mail.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 7:28 pm EST

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I would like to congratulate all of the gay people who have now achieved (in the state anyway) a right to enter into a voluntary legal contract. Now you have almost as many rights as convicted felons and illegal aliens.
I find this day to be both a joyous one (for the hard won victory in terms of human rights) and a very sad one in that it demonstrates an ugly truth about basic human rights in America...that they are not extended to everyone.
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 7:00 pm EST

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What a fine group of upstanding Christians in this forum! Praise Jesus! At least the Golden Rule prevails as the foundations of our society show cracks and strains!
-- Posted by Robert New on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:41 pm EST

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The problem here Folks, is that our Lawmakers did not bring
Gay Marriage issue to the People. In a REFERENDUM, so the Voice of the People could be heard. Senator Mullen was for
Gay Marriage,,before he was against Gay Marriage. Confused,
Iam!!!He and His Fellow Lawmakers knew if they brought this to the people, there would no Gay Marriage in Vermont.
Sorta,,Kinda,,Maybe.
-- Posted by angelo None on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:22 pm EST

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I see there are quite a few married men who are married to women who spend their free time at rest areas and dirty book stores having casual sex with men.......so afraid someone is going to find out their secret they have to attack gays at every venture.

Sad and pathetic.

Seek therapy and by the way, your wives already know.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:16 pm EST

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Palin, I know there are not any Piggly wiggly's in Vermont. Guess you didn't get the association. Surprise!!! Anyway, No, None None did not get me going "Bucko." My problem is with what he/she said. It was rude, hurtful, exteremely derogatory ,in very bad taste, and really serves no purpose. Every person is entitled to "voice" an opinion, and just like None None and you, I have that same right. And just for the record, I am neither a "transplant" nor am I Gay. I just have very little patience for hatred, intolerance and idiocy. I have wasted enough time on this topic and you...
-- Posted by Concerned Taxpayer on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:00 pm EST

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Keep it up rrwnjs, you are distinguishing yourselves and living up to the stereotype and proving why your party is in the death rattle.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 3:55 pm EST

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LOLOL....GOOD PLAY ON WORDS NONE NONE!!
-- Posted by Johanna Jensen on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 2:40 pm EST

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I guess Juliet, Notta, and Ed Flanagin will be RIDING TOGETHER, to the Wedding on Wednesday,,Iam getting Misty!!!
-- Posted by angelo None on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 2:23 pm EST

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Juliet, those louts may not be the majority (actually a very tiny but very vocal minority) but they have been aptly named as the "MAKORITY" by one of their ignorant numbers.

Best in life to all of you who will take advantage of Vermont's newly inclusive marriage law on 9/1/09 and thereafter. Too bad Jimbo couldn't bring himself to sign an historic civil rights law before he blew out of town.
-- Posted by Notta Bushman on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 1:56 pm EST

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TG, LOL...but must add that there are some nice people in Alabama whom we really wouldn't want to inflict this upon!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 1:46 pm EST

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If there is anyone here who hasn't concluded that there are a number of ignorant louts posting on this site, they will have it confirmed with the offerings today.

Frankly, they are upset because they are no longer a majority and becaue their views are now on the fringes of a society that has changed. Their response is fear anger. There's no point trying to change their views...they and those like them however are declining with every passing day. Thank the stars! Warm wishes to all those whose lives will begin in an affirmation of love and hope.
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 1:32 pm EST

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Concerned taxpayer..I have news for you...WE AIN'T GOTS PIGGLY WIGGLY IN VERMONT...Real Vermonters know that...transplants resort to their past when thery get riled up....guess ole none none got to you Bucko

as for none none's comment....THAT was a great line...made me laugh my real vermont a$$ off...HYSTERICAL and sadly true

and finally, I too wasn't aware the 2 socialists from Brooklyn were gay....maybe they will come out with a new fudge ice cream....
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 11:34 am EST

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2nd Peter 2:1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
-- Posted by Major Taxpayer on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 9:29 am EST

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"I think i just up chucked in my cereal bowl! What a way to ruin the opening day Bear Season! The JOKE is no more and what a sad day for the MAKORITY of us!"

OK, THAT was pretty darn funny. "What a way to ruin the opening day Bear Season"? Man, that is definitely the line of the day. Sitcom-worthy...

True Vermonter, the "MAKORITY" of Rutland thanks you for the belly laugh!
-- Posted by That Guy on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 8:31 am EST

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True Verm,

Majority of the people, I know, don't care. The only strong feelings against this, that I've seen, are in these comments.

What's the big deal? No one is asking or forcing you to marry someone you don't want to. Why should others be forced to do what they don't want to do?

I guess the very religious are the most upset. Even though a gay marriage took place hundreds of years before christ.

To me, it assures me "marriage" was and has been used before the current, popular religion. Marriage is a "contract" between two people. Not a "contract" with god. "The Church" assumed it as their own. Any way to make money is a good in their eyes. Always has been. (Even if it means murder and plunder.)

So the only reason they get upset is because they are very conservative. They feel they must control the world on their conscience. Which is funny. Look at history and you will see the horror and ugliness that has come from these conservatives. (Mass murder of free thinking women. Mass murder of men they hired to find religious artifacts. Pedophilia. Mass murder. Corruption. Theft.)

Even today "The church" is very wealthy and powerful. They could sell NEEDLESS items and help feed the dire people. But they won't. Power, control, assets, and money is more important to them. Always has been.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 7:52 am EST

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Congratulations to committed couples who now have the same rights to choose the commitment of marriage and protect each other and their families! My husband and I are very, very happy for you.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 7:42 am EST

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I think i just up chucked in my cereal bowl! What a way to ruin the opening day Bear Season! The JOKE is no more and what a sad day for the MAKORITY of us!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:23 am EST

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Congratulations Vermont on the coming of this joyous day!
Thank you Beth Robinson and everyone who worked so hard on behalf of love, equality, justice and progress.
The struggle continues but Tuesday is a day for pure celebration.
Warmest salutations from the Olinick family.
-- Posted by Judy Olinick on Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 6:08 am EST

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