RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

Church marries same-sex couples



Toolbox

By Gordon Dritschilo Staff Writer - Published: September 6, 2009

The first wedding Saturday at Rutland's Unitarian Universalist Church had almost as many members of the media as it did guests.

Two reporters and a photographer joined four friends as Bela Francoeur-Schug and Margaret Francoeur-Dunne of Rutland exchanged vows — one of three couples who signed up for brief ceremonies upgrading their civil unions to marriages Saturday morning.

The Rev. Erica Baron organized the Saturday event and a similar one for today in Bennington to offer couples with civil unions an opportunity to get married easily and quickly now that the gay marriage law has taken effect.

Francoeur-Schug and Francouer-Dunne, who held their 8-month-old daughter as they exchanged vows, were joined in a civil union in 2006.

"Our civil union ceremony was a really big event for us," Francoeur-Dunne said. "We planned it; we had guests from all over the world. It was our family and friends recognizing our union."

Saturday, they said, was about legal recognition, so they did not feel the need to make as big a production out of it.

"Also, the last one was really special," Francoeur-Schug said. "I think we didn't want to make a big deal out of this because it felt like signing a contract."

Cindy Lack and Kathy Detko of Poultney, who also had a small handful of guests, said this was their third time standing together and formally declaring their relationship. The first was a commitment ceremony in 1990.

"That one was pretty quiet, as well, a Unitarian church in Provincetown, (Massachusetts)," Lack said.

Their civil union ceremony was in 2000.

"That was a fairly big deal," Lack said. "We had a JP at the house. We had a 'ginormous' barbecue."

While they are throwing another barbecue, they said they decided to keep the service small and quick.

"I called Monday, and here we are today," Lack said. "I'm not real good at planning."

Margaret Baker and Jessica Rouse of East Middlebury said they also were holding their third service, though they went in a different order than Lack and Detko. They were joined in a civil union in July 2003, followed by a commitment ceremony that October.

"When we called our families and told them what we did, they said 'what?'" Baker said.

"We kind of eloped the first time," Rouse added. "It was a lot like this."

With two kids in tow and another small gaggle of onlookers, Baker and Rouse said the quick and simple ceremony appealed to them.

"Our family — I called them and told them we were getting married and they said 'again?'" Baker said. "We're not making a big deal out of it. We're already about as married as we can be."

gordon.dritschilo@rutlandherald.com








READER COMMENTS


CF,
While I don't normally agree with you, I respect your comments on norm/normal. Well said. I was against gay marriage, but now that it is here, has it affected me? Not one bit. So, I guess it's not that big a deal after all. I still don't like the way the legislature put the economy on the back burner to push it through. And it also bothers me that gay marriage seemed to be pushed through with much backing from out of state money, but that's in the past. I'll voice my opinion with the legislature next November. OK, enough on this thread. What other Herald article can we hijack the forum on, and turn it into a liberal/conservative/socialist debate? LOL :)
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, 6:59 pm EST

report this comment



(Sorry was distracted.)

Religious battles are still ongoing today.

My point in all of this is.

People conquered cities, towns, and cultures for wealth, land, and control.

Even Nazi's, communists, Taliban, Catholics, Christians, and just about every faith or extremist. Did it, or do it, to control everyone and to force them to BELIEVE and LIVE the way they wanted them to live. A society ruled under their "belief system". (Be it full control or FEAR!)

Yes, some of it is extreme conservatism at it's worst. The world mostly acknowledges Catholic/Christianity. There is a reason for that. It has a bloody past.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, 8:48 am EST

report this comment



True None None,

Then what do we have to worry about?

Why is everyone so upset?

It's NOT the NORM.. But it is NORMAL.

The problem is... People think they have the right to decide what is legal or not between consenting, loving adults. Based on their belief. Be it religious or whatever.


Nazi's, Russia, and many communists believed that their race was superior. And they put much effort toward controlling it. They would destroy babies that were retarded, had defects, down syndrome, visible birthmarks, and other reasons.

Even though these things are NORMAL. It's NOT the NORM. This is an extreme case of control. But it's the same idea. It's extreme control on what is NOT the NORM. But is normal.

Jerry,

There was a day when conservatives were just as EXTREME in their ways. They have become more tolerant, more accepting, and more relaxed when something changes that THEY wanted to change for the Majority. But, as we see now, and as we saw throughout history. If it's the minority asking for change. It can be a violent and troubled road. (Look at the history of women's suffrage, murder of free-thinking women as they were considered witches.) Womans suffrage is still NOT accepted at Vatican City. Women in many 3rd world countries are still controlled by groups like the Taliban. Forcing women to live, fear, and obey.)

Most wars, and land claim, up until about the 1800's were religious battles. They would take control of land, force the surviving people to be slaves and change their faith. Some paid their debt and earned their freedom. But many had to practice their belief/religion in secrecy.

Hell, "The church" imprisoned or put scientists on house arrest for saying, "We orbit the sun. Earth, and religion, is not the center of the universe."

This is how arrogant these men were. If God created earth, man, and religion. The he certainly put us at the center. That was the belief of beloved "The Church".

"The Church" slaughtered their own protectors. Men that were hired by the church became powerful and wealthy. They were convinced that this was a "Safety issue". All were captured and murdered.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Wed, Sep 9, 2009, 8:31 am EST

report this comment



Hey firdog,
Just because something occurs "naturally" in nature, that still doesn't make it normal. I believe normal still means "the standard, or usual", not "potentially 2-4 % of the population". At the very worst, normal could be taken as "average", again, no where near 2-4 %. So, while same sex couples may occur in nature, they are far from the "normal".
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, 10:57 pm EST

report this comment



Jerry,

Do you have numbers and proof to support your claim? (not just probabilities)

Link please!
.
(how odd you want proof of someones claim but don't produce proof of your own.
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, 5:32 pm EST

report this comment



-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 6:19 pm EST
"You don't find it odd that "The Church" is responsible for millions, upon millions, and more millions of dead people. All in the name of their sins? Greed, power, and control? (Liberals and not even the Nazi's hold a candle to what conservatives have done throughout history.)"

I'd be curious what numbers you have supporting that claim. In the past century, for instance, Uncle Joe and Chairman Mao were responsible for up to 100 million deaths themselves (not counting the 20 million Russian deaths in WWII). I don;t think they can be described as conservatives (in your view), nor are they religious.
-- Posted by Jerry none on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, 2:42 pm EST

report this comment



Hey, Dr. Gonzo, do some research. Same sex couples happen THROUGHOUT the animal kingdom. seems to me that makes it pretty much natural. now it goes back to religion. a man-made construct made to control people. hmmm....
-- Posted by firedog on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, 4:58 am EST

report this comment



The only thing hijacking our country is the money that is buying our politicians and their votes. Truly sad.
-- Posted by Jim Eckhardt on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 8:48 pm EST

report this comment



Read history...the traditional church was about political power, nepotism, land accumulation, and monarchy, not about love and hope and all that jazz. That's why the peasants rose up with pitchforks! The church has and continues to be an instrument of political control, most effective with the under eduated and weak-minded.
Pity that the history of our country, built on civil rather than religious principles, has been hi-jacked by people who can neither put the bilble or the constitution in proper context. Some of the wingnuts can read, but they can't think. So many wasted minds, so many ignorant....you add the ending!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 8:18 pm EST

report this comment



Ernest..

It's no different than their precious beliefs/religions.

They read doomsday into everything. "The Sheep" have been controlled for 1000's of years by "Scare tactics/Fear".

They don't know better.

Our world is going through some definite changes. Something bad could happen. Will they run through the streets screaming "OMG-LOOK WHAT YOU ALL DID-IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF YOU"?.... We know they will!

Unfortunately, they are still the majority in this world. They will try to force this fear tactic upon the world again. Hopefully they don't succeed. But they probably will. History has a habit of repeating itself.

I just hope education conquers their psychobabble bible B.S..... We already know many of the events in the bible were NOT because of GOD. But many don't understand, accept science, or the truth.
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 6:32 pm EST

report this comment



None None,

Really? Conservatives are the lesser of two evils?

I guess you never read history. You don't find it odd that "The Church" is responsible for millions, upon millions, and more millions of dead people. All in the name of their sins? Greed, power, and control? (Liberals and not even the Nazi's hold a candle to what conservatives have done throughout history.)

"The Church" is a pure example of conservatism trying to control all. A religion that was extremely political, and had an army/mercernaries whom did their bidding.

I'm tolerant because I see the truth. I see a group of people standing behind a belief/religion/ideal, and trying to force the world to live the way THEY want them to live. While they choose what to tolerate when it concerns what THEY want.

It's not an opinion. It's no different than their religion or their precious bible. HYPOCRISY!
-- Posted by CF Reality on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 6:19 pm EST

report this comment



Sure NN#1, You won, thanks to $$$$$$$$$$$, it over comes anything doesnt it!! And by looking at the newly married i,m glad Burger King is open again, i'd hate them to miss a Value Meal with the King!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 6:13 pm EST

report this comment



"A direction that will doom the human race if adopted by the whole."

Adopted by the whole? So marriage equality in VT will turn everyone gay? Straight people are at risk of becoming extinct? Who knew?! Exciting news for gay people; we have so many more options now. Clearly, you have scientific fact on your side. Fancying men yet?

But, honestly, Dr. Gonzo: still angry and bitter? Because your life has changed so remarkably since gay couples began marrying in VT last week? Or are you just funnin' us?

There really is nothing left to comment on regarding marriage in VT, beyond offering congratulations to the happy couples--gay and straight--who decide to marry. VTers who believe in marriage equality can help in other states and at the federal level, where gay couples are still discriminated against. There is more work to be done, but those VTers who are opposed to marriage equality or who don't care about it one way or the other are free to sit the issue out now since it's settled here.

I think most people--gay and straight--would agree that marriage is all about love. But if you want to read doomsday into it no one's going to stop you.
-- Posted by Ernest McLeod on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 5:20 pm EST

report this comment



Well, here we are yet again! Good to see there are a few people left out there with some traditional values.
Anyone remember the kids educational tv show School House Rock?
Remember the show about the #3?
It started out like this, and I quote......
"three, its a magic number. yes it is, there are three in the family. its a magic number. a man and a woman had a little baby. when they did, there were 3 in the family. thats a magic number."

Sorry. No magic for you gay married couples. Just the pretense of normalcy.

Those who insist on going against the way of nature are doomed.
Thats not a quote from The Bible. Its just the eternal truth.

BTW- what in Natures name does any of this have to do with being a True Vermonter???

The laws of nature know no state lines.

And, its not "a great day for all vermonters", its a sad direction in our social evolution. A direction that will doom the human race if adopted by the whole.

Its scientific dont ya know.

Do the Middlebury professors who drove this movement so hard have any comment on the scientific logic here?
Nope, I know, its all about love and emotion for you. "I wanna get married to my boyfriend! Waaaaaaaa!"

You are truely sick doomed.
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 3:56 pm EST

report this comment



Sorry, None None, you're not a "true Vermonter" unless you were born here. Move to Vermont if you'd like to, but don't kid yourself - you're not a "true Vermonter", no matter how much you want to be. I'm really sorry that I listed my name here in the Herald as None None because I can't figure out how to change it, and would love to disengage myself from the other None Nones out there.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 1:55 pm EST

report this comment



Let's see, I was against the banking bailout. I was against the auto bailout. I guess I have to admit to being a fiscal conservative, which used to be known as having common sense. I'm also against govt run healthcare. This govt could not run anything with fiscal responsibility, republican or democrat. Again, common sense has left the building. So, yes, I guess you could call me a conservative in the fiscal sense.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 12:31 pm EST

report this comment



wow, it amazes me everyday the ignorance of some people. Elizabeth, go look up the word "socialist" please. you will find it would be hard for NN1 to have a "socialist" name. and for those spouting religous verses, do you only choose certian ones or do you follow them all? for thwe bible also says that picking and choosing verses for your own good is a mortal sin. as for the bible itself, do you really believe in a talking snake, men who lived over 800 years old and a big, scary guy in the sky?
-- Posted by firedog on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, 1:55 am EST

report this comment



Wow, CF, YOU seem SO tolerant with your arrogant, belittling posts. God, I hate liberals. I don't consider myself republican, but they are definitely the lesser of two evils most of the time.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 11:54 pm EST

report this comment



Civil marriage is not about a religious matter, its about establishing equity in the eyes of the law. We allow religious institutions to officiate marriages here, in other places in the EU, marriages MUST be performed by a civil authority and then can also be officiated in a religious venue. These are two separate matters as they should be. More important, society should welcome commitment and family life in whatever form that takes. Those are real family values!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 1:39 pm EST

report this comment



Congratulations to the couples!
Thank you, UU Church!
Thank you, Vermont!
-- Posted by Kevin Moss on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 12:43 pm EST

report this comment



Congratulations to the happy couples and to the Unitarian Universalist Church for being a sanctuary for love instead of division. It's been a great week in VT, another one during which love and joy triumphed over hatred and out-of-state meddlers. Live and let live, the VT way.
-- Posted by Ernest McLeod on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 12:10 pm EST

report this comment



Elizabeth Pecor,

Just because you believe in that foolish fairytale doesn't mean that we all have to. This country is not based upon who believes or doesn't believe in the bible. If you want to live your life by the bible, then do it, it's a free country and I by no means would try to stop you from living your life as you see fit, so stop trying to stop others from living their lives as they see fit.

It's funny how you nutcase righties want less government in your lives but see no problem with more government in someone else's life.

Seek therapy.

.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 12:06 pm EST

report this comment



I've read it. But it's not my tradition, and not my belief. It is for you, so I believe it's worth protecting your right to live and believe as you choose. Please allow others to do the same.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 12:02 pm EST

report this comment



oppps my bad 2-24
-- Posted by Elizabeth Pecor on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 11:42 am EST

report this comment



Genesis 2-23
Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female and said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.
-- Posted by Elizabeth Pecor on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 11:41 am EST

report this comment



If you think you're oppressed because equal rights are finally reaching citizens whose lives you think are icky, you might want to be grateful that you've never experienced oppression.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 11:29 am EST

report this comment



Hmm, might people remain anonymous to protect their jobs, families, even their lives? Maybe they just don't care to be harassed by name. Seems reasonable to me.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 10:45 am EST

report this comment



"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes on Him should not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16)." Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life, no person comes to the Father but by me (John 14:6)". What does that have to do with it? Everything. It's not just such as in this article, it's about all sin. We are all responsible individually before God in the light of His word, even in VT, even Erica. It's not about hate, it's about love.
-- Posted by Marginalized Voices on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 10:25 am EST

report this comment



That is a problem with government today. They cover up the real issues and vote on issues that should be secondary to what really matters. People can't stand by their real names, they have to fake and ingenuous. What ever happened to transparency? There is no transparency in the government. It is the same old problem and that is why it never be believable.
-- Posted by Tim Briggs on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 10:24 am EST

report this comment



So NONENONE ONE I take it that you are a hater hiding hehind your SOCIALIST screen name
-- Posted by Elizabeth Pecor on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 10:16 am EST

report this comment



The hundreds of gay and heterosexual volunteers who worked for Vermont's marriage equality included many native Vermonters, some for several generations. They and their families care about equality for all Vermonters and their families.

Still, native "credentials" are totally unnecessary. It's a free country -- anyone who lives here is a "true Vermonter." However, long ago there were people who really did have Vermont and the rest of this country taken away from them, native people who were killed and actually did have their cultures destroyed when invaders took over . . .
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 10:07 am EST

report this comment



Elizabeth I agree! Hiding behind screen name make this whole forum worthless and not real discussion about issues. They should back their comments with their real names.
-- Posted by Tim Briggs on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:51 am EST

report this comment



Funny, I would have expected a statement such as "take back vermont" to be the cry of indigenous people, not the ones who already stole it from them!
What ever happened to live and let live?
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:31 am EST

report this comment



Elizabeth,

We have to anonymously because of the sheer hatred that is written in these threads in order to protect my family and my children from the likes of people who would love to see us dead.

Nice little group you've associated yourself with Elizabeth.

BTW - I'm a true Vermonter as well, born and raised.
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:29 am EST

report this comment



Tim Briggs,

If you are going to toss around your twisted and one sided version of morals, you should learn how to spell it....its MORALS not MORALES
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:26 am EST

report this comment



NONENONE ONE I would love to come back home to vermont.I sold my home and moved ( Thank you HOWIE DEAN for higher taxes). I am a TRUE VERMONTER I was born and raised there. Just wondering NONENONE ONE are you afraid to give your real name or will ya just hide behind a screen name????
-- Posted by Elizabeth Pecor on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:15 am EST

report this comment



This is a sad day for Rutland county and State of Vermont. Vermont's morales are at a all time low. That is too bad! Instead of Vermont legislature lowering taxes and working towards job creation, they have to vote on and pass this foolishness. Gay marriage is a scam.
-- Posted by Tim Briggs on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 9:03 am EST

report this comment



FOR THE RECORD...

Elizabeth Pecor doesn't even live in Vermont, she/it lives in New Hampshire!

Go home Elizabeth!
.
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 8:55 am EST

report this comment



I have been happily married traditionally for over 10 years, and congratulate the newly married.

I ask for all opposed, for religious reasons.... Have you broken your solemn vows before God? Divorced? Cheated? Had impure thoughts? If so you are quite hipocritical to oppose people who aspire just to be happy.

Do you keep slaves? The Bible says you can. Work Sundays? Bible says that is wrong too. The Bible says you can stone a woman who doesn't cry loud enough after a rape.

Keep your selective reasoning, and live unhappily.
-- Posted by 5letters 6letters on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 8:34 am EST

report this comment



Marriage is and will always be a " UNION BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN ".This is the worst thing Vermont has done.I hope it comes back to kick the people in the rear that voted for it. TAKE BACK VERMONT
-- Posted by Elizabeth Pecor on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 7:58 am EST

report this comment



True Vermonter...

That's funny the minority won!

Svck it up!

LOL!!!
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 7:57 am EST

report this comment



whay will be the last name of the baby?
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 7:43 am EST

report this comment



Your right NN#1, It was a Great day for everyone who likes FOOTBALL!! Speak for yourself,your the minority, not all VERMONTERS AGREE with you at all in the least!
-- Posted by True Vermonter on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 7:24 am EST

report this comment



Congratulations! May you find joy together in marriage.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 6:54 am EST

report this comment



This is a great day for ALL Vermonters!

Civility does reign in most Vermonters!
.
-- Posted by NONENONE ONE on Sun, Sep 6, 2009, 5:55 am EST

report this comment


You must be logged in to leave a comment. Register | Log In

Logout