RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

New president for the Vermont-NEA vows to focus on teacher retirement



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By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau - Published: September 14, 2009

MONTPELIER – This summer, Martha Allen went from one of the state's smallest schools to a new post as president of the Vermont-NEA, the largest union in the state.

Representing more than 11,000 teachers and other school workers from Bennington to Canaan – the school system where Allen was a teacher and librarian until her new job – she has a lot on her desk. Among the contentious issues she faces are rising education costs and property tax revolts, school consolidation proposals, and declining enrollments.

But the one item that gets her animated is teacher retirement funding, and as head of a powerful union whose employees are tied into every town and city in the state, what she cares about counts.

For Allen, the issue is not just the possible changes to teachers' and state employees' pensions being considered by a commission set up to study how to bring the costs of those retirement systems down. It's that the commission even exists in the first place that worries – even offends – her.

"They are out to eliminate our pension system as we know it," said Allen, who has concluded that the biggest change in education policy being sought by the state is not in school spending but that state officials "need to support our retirement system."

This is not a minor labor disagreement that affects only managers and workers; it's an issue that has critical import to the entire state.

State Treasurer Jeb Spaulding, who worked to convene the group looking at the pension system, said that without changes the cost of the retirement system could simply overwhelm the ability of the state government's main General Fund to pay for anything else, he said.

"Anybody who looks at the system realizes we need to make adjustments to the current benefits, to contribution levels or a combination of the two," Spaulding said. "It's a plain fact."

According to the state treasurer's Web site, the market value of the teacher's fund was roughly $1.13 billion as of June 30, 2009, down several hundred million in the last year, but still a substantial sum.) The system paid out $82.2 million in retirement benefits during fiscal year 2008.) But the key issue is that a crunch in state revenues has pinched the General Fund, even as more funds are needed to keep up with anticipated teachers retirement benefits – a $10-$12 million boost, according to the latest teacher retirement newsletter.

Spaulding does not want to see the retirement benefits for already retired teachers changed, and the benefits of those close to retirement should, ideally, be left alone as well, Spaulding said. But in an age when people are living longer after they retire and when states across the country are seeing revenues collapsing, it is reasonable – and necessary – to ask younger teachers to put more in or expect less out, Spaulding said.

But the proposals to change retirement for teachers looks like something else from Allen's perspective in her new seat.

"It was a promise," she said. "That promise is being broken."

Spaulding said members of the Vermont State Employees Association, the union for state workers, was very helpful in making changes to its members retirement programs and he hopes to work with Allen and the Vermont teachers as well.

"I am looking forward to working with Martha as we work on making adjustments," he said. But in the end "the only thing that is not reasonable is to say we have to have status quo."

In Vermont, teachers' retirements are paid out of the state's main General Fund, even though school spending comes out of the Education Fund, supported by property taxes and other sources. One idea floated by the Douglas administration has been to pay teachers' retirement out of the Education Fund as well.

But that would put more demands on local property taxes, including through the fairly new "two-vote" provision designed to put pressure on some districts to reduce spending, Allen said.

"School programs will end up being cut," she said.

Conceptually, teacher's retirement should probably be paid out of the Education Fund, Spaulding said.

"Teachers are certainly a local education expenditure and the cost of those pension funds for transparency and accuracy ought to come out of those funds," he said.

But to put such a change in place now would very likely have a significant detrimental effect on towns, Spaulding conceded.

Allen, whose husband also teaches in the Canaan school system, has taught for three decades and has two children of her own, so she knows a lot about schools from the inside.

Retirement funding is by no means the only school spending issue that Allen, who replaces retiring Angelo Dorta, will have to handle. The relatively high expense of public education in Vermont – which has among the lowest teacher to pupil ratios and some of the smallest schools and school districts in the country – has been an issue for decades.

Gov. James Douglas and others in the state have worried for some time that school spending will impinge on other state services and budgets, a debate that culminated in the compromise "two vote" system in 2007.

But Allen is not giving much ground in that area either. Instead of looking for ways to limit school spending Vermonters should be happy about the high marks the education system in the state gets.

"We should be proud of our teachers and proud of our students and proud of our system," Allen said.

"I don't see a lot of frills," she said. "I think of my small school and there just isn't any fluff."








READER COMMENTS


Most Vermont workers are underpaid...including the teachers...we all live here to eat the scenery and benefit from the clean air, right? Rather than having all the peasants fight among themselves for the crumbs and bash others who have a few additional crumbs, isn't it time we asked why the, the top 1% in the country now have 95% of the wealth?

Now asking this question will raise the hackles of some of the peasants, and I must say this, if there are short comings in the American system of education, you will be sure to see them on display here!

Why are pension funds everywhere shot of cash (for those lucky enough to have a defined benefit pension plan) because the laws governing such private and public plans have allowed them to be structurally underfunded. In other words, the liability has been deferred to the future by successive administrators and coporations. The rent is coming due now as the baby-boomers are ready to retire. Ooops...expedient, but bad policy decisions have lead to a crisis again!
-- Posted by Juliet Chien on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, 10:41 pm EST

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Hey,Proctor School Board transparency, that might be a good word for all board members to look up.Oh, and STEALING.Before the school board chair decides he can run the town,he needs to clean up the school side. The Proctor select board has called for a 10% decrease on ALL budgets. What will the school board call for? Hmmm, also it would be nice if the school district audits could make there way to the town.
Wake Up Proctor!! Hold the school board accountable!!!!!
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, 5:39 am EST

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Michael, yes I made an error..and you know I know it is ARLEN..you asked me a few weeks ago who he is....but it matters not...any Spector who worries more about bill bilichick then he does the healthcare bill or the economy is useless....ole Arlen needs to step down and take his bald buddy Leahy with him..what a disgrace of an Irishman...
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 9:49 pm EST

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Wonder if she would be so upset if the commission were established to bring "up" the costs of the retirement program. It's not the teachers or the retirement program. It is the manner in which the funds contributed to the program have been managed. Transparency is something that is hardly ever observed in large retirement fund management programming. The investment managers and firms get their fees no matter what. Add to this that in order to streamline government early out programs are offered. This then adds to the retirement fund drainage. In the educational system it is harder to offer early out programs to reduce staffing due to the high levels of federally required programs. The system needs revamping to meet the economic times. Transparency at all levels: funding, management, development and payments should be a priority so that taxpayers, employers and God bless them; the teachers, can function without discontent. Unions, like goverment employ a cloak of secrecy. That cloak has grown into a curtain to the disadvantage of all.
-- Posted by Ed Larson on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 6:57 pm EST

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Lay them all off, start over and make them reaplly for thier jobs. They can then see how it is in the real world of employment.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 2:54 pm EST

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Michael in Vermont, my question is this: Is your "Arlen Spector" (whose relation to Palin is Sweet's "Allen Spector" you question) any relation to Arlen Specter, the turncoat, save-his-senate-seat at all costs senator from Pennsylvania?
-
-- Posted by Bill O. Rights on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 2:53 pm EST

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Why do we say that our children are the most important things in our lives at the same time that we struggle to send them off as soon as possible to be raised by people that we don't know and are not willing to pay more than minimum wage to?
Anyone who thinks that a teacher's job is so easy and high paying; that the workday actually starts and ends with the school day, doesn't know anything about teaching.
If it is such a cushy, well paying, do nothing job, why aren't the people who insist that this is so all teachers themselves?
-- Posted by Comfy Anon on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 12:53 pm EST

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To Palin is Sweet: I still don't know who Allen Spector is. Is he any relation to Arlen Spector, the Senator from Pennsylvania? To the rest of you: The teacher retirement fund isn't down because of the payments to teachers - it is down because of losses in the stock market.
-- Posted by Michael in Vermont on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 9:53 am EST

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It isn't a lie. If it was so low then why is the retirement fund bankrupting the state? I know a teacher that is retired and the retirement is 50% of their salary. What you made and for how long you worked has an impact on the amount.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 6:34 am EST

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We have too many SU,and schoolboards that do nothing.Take Proctor for example,on employee number two for stealing from the school.Do you hear about this ?NO! The schoolboard protects the person who has STOLEN $100,000!!!!!
Where's the story about this rutland Herald?
I am sick and tired of protecting the slugs of society!
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 5:43 am EST

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Michael VT: $3720 a year doesn't sound right. When did you retire? How many years did you have in the system?
-- Posted by SC Boy on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 5:11 am EST

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Teaching always has been, and always will be a thankless job. any of you try to deal with these kids? or their parents for that matter? i highly dout any of you could handle it. the fact that any of you can even type on this post is thanks only to, you guessed it, your teachers. the jobs you all have, thank your teachers. in fact, it was the strength of our education system in this country that made us the greatest in the world, and it is what will bring us back to that pinnicle. There are very few people who would willingly, without strong incentives, take the abuse you people are willing to dole out on a daily basis. in order to attract the best teachers, you must lure them in. and a 70k a year salary is far from great. add in the bennies, and it is a good living, but again, far from great. i grew up with a teacher for a parent. the pay really is not great. and after 25 years full time, at the age of 70 he still has to sub to make ends meet. that includes the income from my mother working as well. yes, there are issues with the education system in both Vermont and the nation. but would you be willing to stand where they stand for any less than they get? i highly doubt it. it is time you get off your high horses and maybe volunteer at your local school to help improve them. oh wait, that would take you getting involved in your childs lives.
-- Posted by firedog on Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 2:31 am EST

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Michael..I am really finding it hard to believe your post...I know of a retired teacher from rutland making 2 grand a month...and it worries me more that a retired teacher had to ask me who allen spector is when I commented on a recent healthcare article...
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 11:36 pm EST

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Like so much else in this forum, people are able to make up lies and other people, seeing them in writing, tend to believe them. In the post directly below mine, None None says that "Retired teachers in VT make 50% of their salary for the entire time of their retirement." I am a retired Vermont teacher. My last year's salary was $35,000. My Vermont State Teacher's Retirement is $3,720 per year and my health insurance premiums is deducted from that so my net Vermont Teacher's retirement income is $1,980 per year. So let's stop the lies.
-- Posted by Michael in Vermont on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 10:59 pm EST

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Retired teachers in VT make 50% of their salary for the entire time of their retirement. This is in addition to Social Security etc. Some teachers around Rutland make over 70k per year. That means that when they retire they will receive just from the state for teaching 35k per year. Add in Social Security and you are looking at retiring for about 70k per year. Teachers in VT will retire and make more than most of working citizens make in this state. This doesn't include any other retirement benefits like health insurance etc.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 5:44 pm EST

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a simple question for a going broke taxpayer ..

why do the teachers need a union?

Wonder if one of the union folks on the public dime will tell me...
-- Posted by Palin is Sweet on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 5:01 pm EST

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Native
School Cafes are far better than the bag lunch most working people have.

Show me a teacher or any staff that works 7.5 hours per day.

School starts at 800 and ends at 230 that is 6.5 hours if you cound the lunch times and the breaks. Sure they stay after. I have been in the schools on many occassions after and there isn't anything that resembles work being done.
Work at home? B.S. Years ago teachers would make up tests, now they use the same ones year after year.They don't even let the students keep the tests, so next year students can't get the answers.
They have to grade and with a template and for 15 to 25 kids that takes all of what 20 minutes? Sure an essay question may take more time to read, but how often are essay questions given? Give it a break. They do not work as hard as you may try and give them credit for and they are far from under paid. I used $45,000 and did not throw in the Fringe Benefits with is another few grand. You see they do not have Social Security deducted or much else, we the taxpayers pay that for them in their Fringe Benefits package.
Yes! there are good ones and bad ones, I would venture to say more bad ones that good ones.

They don't even take care of the classrooms. Walk into one and see how trashy it is is. Some schools are better and worse than others, but over all the accountability has gone to He** in a hand basket.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 3:45 pm EST

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This is a letter about the president of the teachers union, what would you expect her to say. The union has one objective and that is to squeeze the most money and benefits out of the public that they can for their paying customers. A union is an insurance business, nothing more, nothing less where people pay to protect their jobs and use their power as a group to better their position. There are good school teachers and there are bad, their pay is not the best but you cannot get the vacation time or benefits in private business that they do teaching. Vermont is like a train running out of tracks and education spending is a big part of it. Look what the auto unions did for their industry, teachers will end up hurting themselves with their demands. Vermont cannot afford the small student to teacher ratios, the small schools and mulitple districts...there's train wreck coming.
-- Posted by ex-vermonter None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 2:55 pm EST

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Worst salaries? 200 contract days at 6 hours per day. Now take their Salary and their Fringe Benefit and add the two together and then divide by 6hrs times 200 or 1200. I'll pick a teacher getting $45,000 per year. 45000/1200 equals $37.50 per hour and that is if you want to believe that they are actually working those 6 hours per day. Not bad pay considering Zero co pay and Zero Deducible Insurance goes along with it. Nice meals and plenty of breaks and vacation time.
They are not HIGHLY Educated they only need a Degree and a Certificate. WOW!
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 2:20 pm EST

First of all, it's 7.5 hours per day contracted, not counting the variable amounts of at-home work (grading, lesson planning, parent meetings, etc.) teachers are expected to do. BC/BS VHP coverage is good, but "Zero co pay" it is not - is any insurance?? As for the "nice meals" I'm not sure what school cafeteria YOU'VE been eating in!

The lack of respect for educators (in general, and in these comments specifically) is shameful.
-- Posted by Native Wallingfordian on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 2:38 pm EST

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Bill Mathis was getting
about $110 per hour for his do nothing job. Heck he over saw 1 H.s that had three principles and 4 elementary schools and had about 10 people working in the S.U. Office and he was still paid $110 per hour and never could tell anyone at Town Meetings what he did to earn his money, I know I asked him every year.
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 2:23 pm EST

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Notta said this.
"Strange, isn't it, that a profession that endures the worst salaries of all highly-educated people, in favor of some later security in the form of pensions and lower-cost health benefits, should be the targets of the public's scorn to the point where they want them to lose those benefits AND remain among the worst paid? "

Worst salaries? 200 contract days at 6 hours per day. Now take their Salary and their Fringe Benefit and add the two together and then divide by 6hrs times 200 or 1200. I'll pick a teacher getting $45,000 per year. 45000/1200 equals $37.50 per hour and that is if you want to believe that they are actually working those 6 hours per day. Not bad pay considering Zero co pay and Zero Deducible Insurance goes along with it. Nice meals and plenty of breaks and vacation time.
They are not HIGHLY Educated they only need a Degree and a Certificate. WOW!

Spoken pretty well for a guy who is recieving from the Taxpayers and not paying much in taxes. ROFLMAO
-- Posted by None None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 2:20 pm EST

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I'm sure the retirement funding crisis won't slow down the NEA from spending the bucks during election season.
-- Posted by Dave Holleran on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 12:14 pm EST

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Many companies have ceased to offer pension plans for new employees electing to offer modified 401K plans.

I can't see any problem with that. The bigger problem I see is the fact that there's a teachers union at all. They're only there to facilitate their own existance.
-- Posted by Dave None on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 11:48 am EST

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Am I correct in assuming that the Vermont Pension Invenstment Committee(VPIC) is both both accountable and responsible for the administration and management of the various public pension funds?

This is the latest information from the state treasurer's site:

http://www.vermonttreasurer.gov/pension/index.html

I was unable to locate more recent minutes of the VPIC. These are the latest available thru Google:

http://www.vermonttreasurer.gov/documents/retireVPIC/board/minutes20081124.pdf

Hope this information is helpful in this very important disucssion.

You may also find this article by Mr. Coates which appeared in the Vermont Business Journal of interest:

http://www.vermontbiz.com/article/april/dangerous-trends-require-action
-- Posted by Wurdy Smithy on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 11:28 am EST

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Whit Blauvelt: you have it exactly right. This is a "misery loves company" thing. Rather than find ways to make things better for all of us, these nitwits want to drag others down to their depressed level.

Like you, I'm all for weeding out the bad teachers. I even feel a little bit radical by suggesting that class size could be greater but only if parents will teach their kids to respect their teachers rather than teaching them to hate their teachers and to challenge each and every thing they say or try to do. Perhaps they would prefer the 20-30 kids I had in my classrooms when I was a kid but I knew that teacher was in charge and treated him or her accordingly. I also knew that I'd catch hell at home if I acted up in class!
-- Posted by Notta Bushman on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 10:51 am EST

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Strange, isn't it, that some of the same people who oppose a national health care financing plan also want to throw one segment of the work force, teachers, to the winds, because of our national failure to address that issue?

Strange, isn't it, that a profession that endures the worst salaries of all highly-educated people, in favor of some later security in the form of pensions and lower-cost health benefits, should be the targets of the public's scorn to the point where they want them to lose those benefits AND remain among the worst paid?

Strange, isn't it, that someone would make an oblique claim that home-schooling is superior to public-schooling based on spelling bee results, as if memorizing strange and mostly-unusable words is somehow a good measure of educational prowess? Let's check out the socialization skills of those same kids. I really hope they're OK.

Strange, isn't it, that people want to have the state take over the education of students in violation of the state's Constitution that gives that obligation to the individual towns? While I agree that there are savings to be had in consolidating school districts, eliminating supervisory union duplication, etc., that has to be the decision made by the school districts involved - not the state as a whole.

Perhaps some of you anti-education types would prefer that teachers be paid on the same basis as their equally well-educated and well-trained counterparts in the private sector so they could AFFORD to buy their own health insurance and pay ahead for their own retirements. We're talking about a group of people who often hold down two jobs during the school year and rely on a well-paying summer job to get them through the winter months.

It has always been cheaper for towns to pay teachers on the cheap but give them great benefits purchased on a universal level. Perhaps that needs to be reviewed so that teachers can have the same opportunities for enrichment that others do. Sure, it will cost the towns more than today, but at least those "awful" people to whom we entrust the minds of our kids every day will be in the same boat as the rest of us.

Rethink your positions or better yet, try teaching for a few years. 'Tisn't all roses, boys and girls.
-- Posted by Notta Bushman on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 10:40 am EST

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You have to understand that the quality of education or the hardship of increased education costs on the taxpayer is not even on the NEA's priority list.

They exist for their membership, period. The membership pays the dues that pay Martha Allen's salary and expenses. Therefore that is the one and only priority. End of story.

I agree that someone has to grow a backbone and start streamlining the Vermont educational beaucracy. There are too many administrators for too many districts.

Consolidate districts and close schools too small to be cost effective. We don't need a teacher and an aide for 15 kids.
-- Posted by northstar62 on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 10:03 am EST

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i am amazed that at least lip service to the end product was not made by the "head of the TEACHERS UNION". Once again the emphasis is on the staff not on the children at least by the powers that be. Unfortunately the hundreds of dedicated and professional educators who work in the various school systems will be tarred by the same brush and credited with the same avarice as this individual.
There is a comming crisis of payment in the school systems and the fact that there are way too many districts, superintendants and offices in Vermont is just the tip of the iceberg. There are schools in our fair state where the total school budget if divided by the number of students served would pay tuition at many of the nations most exclusive boarding schools all without "frills" in these places. perhaps instead of demanding a continuance of the status quo the UNION might look to helping formulate a plan for the reasonable use of the resources available not continually demand that more and more be exacted from a citizenry already staggering under one of the highest tax burdens in the 50 states.
-- Posted by Sig Wysolmerski on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 9:49 am EST

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If you want to find out about the staus of the Teachers and State Employees retirement program come listen to David Coates. He will be at the College of St. Joseph on Jan 29 at 7:00 pm. He plans on giving us all a breakdown of exactly what is going on with the programs and what needs to be done to fix it. This event is being sponsored by the Rutland County Pro-Business Coalition and the Vermont Business Roundtable. David Coates is a Democrat with a resume too long to cover here. David has served the last 4 Governors in the Council on Economic Advisors. For more information contact me at jim@censorsecurity.net. Come get the facts.
-- Posted by Jim Eckhardt on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 9:16 am EST

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It's not about "i don't have it therefore you/they shouldn't either". It's about "I can't afford it for myself, what makes them think they should be entitled to it on my back?" I'm all for the American dream, and if they want full retirement benefits, let them work for, and pay for it on their own like i have to. Let the union pick up my share of their retirement benefits and i won't have a problem with them keeping them. This is about a group of individuals thinking they are entitled to a benefit at the expense of others. It's not a rich vs. poor, or labor vs. management, or your pain must equal my pain.

I do agree though that there needs to be something done about getting rid of underperforming teachers. Thinking they are entitled to a job just because they've been at it for 5 or 10 years is wrong also.
-- Posted by you've got to be kidding me on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 8:58 am EST

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It's interesting in an age when many workers have been screwed out of our traditional pension benefits and full medical benefits that the response is so often "And the teachers (or whoever) deserve the same bad treatment we've received!" The rich must love it when the workers insist on seeing each others benefits cut, and insist that our neighbor's pain equals our own.

How about a trade-off here? If the union will support a streamlined program for firing ineffective teachers, perhaps the public will in turn support retaining full traditional pensions and medical benefits for teachers. The problem for the union is that by continually supporting guaranteed employment of our worst teachers, they have squandered their political capital.
-- Posted by Whit Blauvelt on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 8:24 am EST

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I agree with Spaulding to the extent that the teacher retirement needs to be changed. Virtually everyone else in the country that works pays into their own retirements through 401K (except maybe the congress) It is time that public workers including teachers recognise that yes the times they are a changing.

What is the ratio of teachers/librarians/aides to children in Vermont schools? Why do we need aides for 15 kids?

Please, Don't give me the line about a promise being broken. Parents thought that when they sent their children to school they'd get an education. Unfortunately if you've been out and around recently you will notice the number of folks who depend entirely on their cash register to tell them how much change to give you. College students can't figure out their finances and balance a check book and blame the someone else when they are overdrawn.

Isn't it ironic that almost every year the winner of the National spelling competition is home schooled?
-- Posted by northstar62 on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 6:57 am EST

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holy cow does this woman have her head in the sand? Being proud of our education system, and our kids has absolutely nothing to do wtih our ability to pay for it. Mr. Spaulding has hit the nail squarely on the head. Education in Vermont is reaching (and in some communities has reached) a point where there just isn't any money available to pay for it anymore and something needs to be done. And education isn't alone, social security is at this point, as is the whole health care industry, state unemployment, and an untold number of individual households. I would ask Mrs. Allen to wake up and realize the dire straits the residents of this state are in financially. Having a retirement benefit above and beyond social security is nice, but should it be an entitlement? I'm ok with those at or near retirement keeping what was in fact promised to them, but the younger teachers should be willing to give up some benefits in some manner while they have time to make other plans for their retirement. As it stands now Mrs. Allen, like so many other Vermonters, I will have to work until i'm dead. So please, you and your union members pour yourselves another iced tea and enjoy your status quo retirement with full benefits on my back. I'll get the money from somewhere else. Maybe I'll cancel my families health insurance too. That way the Vt NEA can also keep their status quo medical benefits too. God forbid they should have to pick up half or more of their own premiums like the rest of us.
-- Posted by you've got to be kidding me on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, 5:52 am EST

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