RutlandHerald.com - We Are Vermont

Plans to cut retirement fund decried



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By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau - Published: December 5, 2009

MONTPELIER — A commission trying to find acceptable ways to save costs in the state's public employees' retirement systems asked to hear from Vermonters about the issue.

Did they ever.

Words of praise for cost-cutting plans were hard to hear among the more than 280 teachers, school board members and state employees who gathered Thursday evening at the Vermont Interactive Television sites around the state.

Instead, person after person told the commission members the state should "honor the contract" with workers and not "cost-shift" retirement expenses onto the property tax by moving some of the teacher's retirement system obligations from the General Fund into the state's Education Fund. That idea was floated by the Douglas administration last legislative session.

The increasing cost of the retirement system is "not because the teachers have shirked our responsibility," said teacher Jack McKiernan from Brattleboro. "Vermont's legislators repeatedly underfunded the system."

And it was not only those who are benefiting – or will benefit – from the taxpayer-supported retirement programs who worried about moving the teacher's retirement system to the Education Fund.

That move could mean that small schools, which pay their teachers less, will have to pay higher property taxes to support retirement of teachers in districts that are more generous, said Jennifer Smith, a member of the Waterford School Board.

"The overall burden on the smaller schools is going to be heavier," Smith said.

The discussion about possible changes to the retirement programs of teachers and state employees came about because of the fiscal difficulties facing state government.

The state of Vermont will be obligated to put aside $73.5 million this year for those retirement systems and, without changes, it will be $103.5 million next year "a $32 million one-year increase in a year the state is facing at least a $90 million deficit," according to the state treasurer's office.

The collapse of financial markets is a large part of the reason for the increase. So is the increased number of retirees: This year there are 2,800 more retired teachers and state employees than in 2003, according to the treasurer.

"The cost of these programs are escalating faster than the state's ability to pay for them," state Treasurer Jeb Spaulding said.

The commission is not considering changes to the benefits for those already retired, but that fact has not mollified critics or made any proposed changes less controversial. Among ideas being considered are including raising the early and normal retirement ages, increasing the number of years of work to calculate benefits, and having some future retirees pay a larger share of their health insurance depending on how long they have working.

"This is a fairness issue," said Dave Bellini, a long-time state worker who joined the statewide public hearing from Montpelier. "You need to keep your promises."

The hearing fell on the same day that many state workers learned they may well see a pay cut to help the state balance its budget, Bellini pointed out. To now also tell those state workers that they would have to work longer – perhaps a decade longer – to get the same amount of retirement income is not right, Bellini said.

But Spaulding told those at the hearing that doing nothing to change the retirement system and its costs is not a possibility. Few of those concerned about the proposed changes to the retirement system had alternative solutions, but they urged the commission to keep working towards a different solution.

"Please be innovative and look for these other options. They have to be there," said Doug Horne, a teacher from Williston. "We are taxpayers too, and we are voters. We expect you to protect this pension system."

Although several members of the commission are state employees – although not in the union – and another, Rep. Terry Macaig, works for the Vermont State Employees Association and is a former state worker, several speakers said they did not believe the commission has enough members who represent teachers.

In part because of that "any conclusion reached by this commission will be flawed, obviously," said Ernie Clerihew, a Rutland teacher.








READER COMMENTS


The Governor gets $15,000 per year just for meals. He refused to give that up.
-- Posted by None None on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, 3:28 pm EST

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Has the administration forced a 3% wage cut on non-VSEA employees such as the Governor, his staff and the State Police? I don't see mention of changing their retirement (which is even more lucrative the the workers) or reductions in staffing levels.

Fairness has not been a part of this administration and hopefully the next will care about all the residents and not just the wealthy and good ole boys. Look at all, not just those easy to see!
-- Posted by R Hackman on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, 12:25 pm EST

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Property taxes are insane. Income taxes should be used to fund education.
-- Posted by Mr. Moderate on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, 12:21 pm EST

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The promise of huge retirement packages is what has gotten a lot of business' in trouble. Its unsustainable to pay all of your employees after 20 or 30 years of service for the rest of their lives. People live longer now. The USPS, GM, just a couple of examples of way too many retirement packages. How can you run a business when you're still paying someone who has not worked for you in 20 years??
By 2037 SS will only be able to pay 75% of what they say they will pay you right now when you retire. How do we get SS to "stick to the contract"?
When there is no money, there is no money!
Another dose of reality for America.
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, 7:37 am EST

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These people may clamor for their pensions, but how will they collect them if there is no money left to give them?

Government employees in the state of VT, let me cordially welcome to this new place you find yourself: the Real World. Enjoy your new home! Most of us have been living here all our lives; if you need any help, we can show you around.
..
-- Posted by mark on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 11:41 pm EST

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Making changes makes sense for new hires. Vested employees have made life decisions based on the expectation of a retirement that they have paid for, and it is fundamentally wrong to take that away in the middle of their careers.
-- Posted by T G on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 11:32 pm EST

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This is a tough topic because many state employees have been planning on receiving a pension from the state. The trouble is, the state has no money and the taxpayers of Vermont are tapped out. WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS ANYMORE !! In a perfect world, it would not be an issue. Look at what is happening in Washington. The debt is a huge issue. The overall federal debt is about $40,000 for every American and growing. These idiots are increasing spending. I guess the way to deal with a smothering debt is to increase it significantly. I do not get it !!
-- Posted by None None on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 10:09 pm EST

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I agree with Common Sense, pensions are a thing of the past. Convert all state pensions to 401ks. The state could offer a match in the good years and less so in the lean years. 401ks are a great way to invest in yourself and your country's economy.
-- Posted by Dave Holleran on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 1:18 pm EST

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State employees have been paying 20 percent of their healthcare, plus a deductible before that. In comparison to large corporations, state employees are on the low end of the benefit scale. Yes, the benefits are better then that of the small businesses that people keep trying to compare them to, but the State employees nearly 8000 employees. Keep the comparison apples to apples.

Employees have a sizable percentage taken out of their retirement plan. The state employees plan was solvent a couple years ago. Just like when towns re-assessed property values at the height of the bubble, looking at the condition of the retirement plan at March 2009 investment levels is not acceptable.

State employees have accepted a 3% cut in pay, plus loss of cost off living for two years. State employees lost their jobs in lay-offs (approximately 10% of the work force).

Don't blame the State employee for the failures of the leadership. I'm just wondering if Douglas will be getting a huge bonus when he leaves office, just like the CEO's of all our failed companies across the land?
-- Posted by Matt Smith on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 12:26 pm EST

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Amen. If you are being paid with taxpayers' money you should play by the same rules as the people paying you. You can't tell a person who has lost his pension entirely to pay to fully fund yours. You can't ask a person without health insurance to fully fund yours. State employees and teachers along with everyone else on the public payroll need to face the new realities and take their fair share of the cuts along with the rest of us.
-- Posted by Angel None on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 10:09 am EST

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Why not cut the retirement plans and increase the employee's contribution to their health care insurance? That's what private sector businesses have been doing for years. Pension plans are disappearing all over Vermont and the rest of the country and are being replaced with 401k plans for new hires. Employees are contributing more to their own health care insurance. Why should Vermont state employees and teachers receive special treatment - at taxpayer expense? Why should taxpayers subsidize their lush benefit plans while they've seen theirs cut? If they don't like the cuts, let them look for another job in the private sector like the rest of us.
-- Posted by Common Sense on Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 7:54 am EST

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