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Shumlin calls for Yankee vote

1:57 p.m.



Stefan Hard/Times Argus

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Staff Report - Published: February 16, 2010

MONTPELIER -- Senate President Pro Tem Peter Shumlin, joined by three key senators, said Tuesday afternoon they would call for a vote on whether Vermont Yankee should continue operating.

The vote would be scheduled prior to Town Meeting week break, or next week.

The measure will be in the form of a bill, not a resolution, on which a "no vote" would mean the Public Service Board would be prohibited from issuing a new license for the plant, which is scheduled to close in March 2012. The form of the measure means Gov. James Douglas would not get an opportunity to veto the bill if a majority of senators vote to shut the plant.

The other senators included Senate Majority Leader John Campbell, D-Windsor County; Sen. Ann Cummings, D-Washington County, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee; and Sen. Virginia Lyons, D-Chittenden County, chairman of the Natural Resources Committee.

More on this story will appear in tomorrow's edition.







READER COMMENTS


"Name Change, you seem to think that Vermont exists in its own power silo; that just because (unlike the rest of New England) we haven't diversified our power sources, we never CAN diversify those sources."

I do not think that. Vermont has limited amount of people and a huge amount of potential. We also depend on our serene beauty to attract the tourists that Montpelier is so He$$bent on keeping versus industry etc. 600,000 people can not afford a $500 million dollar shut down cost, for clean up etc. That will be absorbed by the largest Utility owners and passed on to Vermonters in their Rate Bills.

"Once again: VY currently provides New England with just around 2% of its total power load. That's it. You seem to think that mothballing VY in over two years will drastically raise Vermonters' power rates because of the giant gaping hole that VY will leave in the New England power market landscape; this simply isn't so."

It is so. Vermont has how many homes and businesses? If all 600,000 people were burning 1000 watts we would need all of VY, we don't. Many get their power from Hydro Quebec, from Niagra and from smaller companies such as Central Vermont Co-Op, Vermont Electric and others. We have a couple of dams and I wonder how long those old cement structures will last before everyone down stream will have to move?
If the 620 mega watts is gone, who is going to replace it and from sacrificing from where to do so? Vermont has the site for VY and that was probably why we got the cheapest rates. It may have been an agreement like I-89 was. There is no way, and I do not care how you do the math, that you can remove 620 megawatts from the grids and expect the rates to stay the same or go down. You sound like Ben Day selling the "Doe Seasons" to the Hunters.

"The grids have grown accustomed to that power"? These are fluid power markets, not people, for God's sake. There are plenty of regional power sources ready to step in and fill the small hole left by VY. And for what it's worth, you keep conveniently forgetting to mention that, after 2012, Entergy intends to sell the vast majority of those megawatts OUT of state."

I do not care about the business side of VY. I know nothing about it and don't care to, what I do care about is afordable and clean energy versus putting a heavier load on the Coal Burning plants. Nuclear is Safe. We can easily put conditions on the renewal and make more people happy. If you look at the photos of VY or even tour the facilities most is all cement and that should last for decades more, if not we better start getting ready to take Lake Meade off of the maps or Wilder and Hartford.

"Then again, that seems to be a common thread among those defending Entergy: Save our 650 jobs! (Except, of course, that most of those jobs go out of state and aren't really "ours"!) Save our 620 megawatts! (Except, of course, that most of those megawatts are sold out of state and aren't really "ours"!)"

Sure some do go out of state and if Vermonters had the gumption they would have been hired instead. IBM brought in 1100 from Virginia years ago and now they hire lot of Vermonters as well. So what. Jobs are money and if they are out of staters living here, they are no longer out of staters and they spend their money here, that is if we have anything to attract them to do so.

"We made it 40 years with "no major problem and no deaths"? Great news. Now we have a forty-year-old plant falling apart at the seams; one its owners want to push even harder to maximize profit over the next two decades; one they want to transfer to a debt-laden shell company in order to shirk their financial responsibility. You really think the future will be as smooth as the past?"

Has anyone gotten an estimate to see how much it would be to bring VY up to Newer Plant standards. It seems the conversations have been more Close or Nothing.

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm

"Since air pollution from coal burning is estimated to be causing 10,000 deaths per year, there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning. "


"Look, I had a car that I drove for twelve years. It was a good car; I put a lot of miles on it, put a lot of wear and tear on it, and it came to the end of its life. You know what wouldn't have been smart? Betting the farm that I could get another six years out of it while driving it harder and faster than ever before at the same time that the car's company was going out of business AND knowing I'd never be able to sell it, trade it in, or even get rid of it without paying an extra penalty to do so."

Look at the diagram at this site and then tell me, what needs the fixing.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/at_a_glance/reactors/vermontyankee.html

How mcuh would the fixing cost and how soon can it get done? If not then why?
-- Posted by Name Change on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 7:02 pm EST

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Name Change, you seem to think that Vermont exists in its own power silo; that just because (unlike the rest of New England) we haven't diversified our power sources, we never CAN diversify those sources.

Once again: VY currently provides New England with just around 2% of its total power load. That's it. You seem to think that mothballing VY in over two years will drastically raise Vermonters' power rates because of the giant gaping hole that VY will leave in the New England power market landscape; this simply isn't so.

"The grids have grown accustomed to that power"? These are fluid power markets, not people, for God's sake. There are plenty of regional power sources ready to step in and fill the small hole left by VY. And for what it's worth, you keep conveniently forgetting to mention that, after 2012, Entergy intends to sell the vast majority of those megawatts OUT of state.

Then again, that seems to be a common thread among those defending Entergy: Save our 650 jobs! (Except, of course, that most of those jobs go out of state and aren't really "ours"!) Save our 620 megawatts! (Except, of course, that most of those megawatts are sold out of state and aren't really "ours"!)

We made it 40 years with "no major problem and no deaths"? Great news. Now we have a forty-year-old plant falling apart at the seams; one its owners want to push even harder to maximize profit over the next two decades; one they want to transfer to a debt-laden shell company in order to shirk their financial responsibility. You really think the future will be as smooth as the past?

Look, I had a car that I drove for twelve years. It was a good car; I put a lot of miles on it, put a lot of wear and tear on it, and it came to the end of its life. You know what wouldn't have been smart? Betting the farm that I could get another six years out of it while driving it harder and faster than ever before at the same time that the car's company was going out of business AND knowing I'd never be able to sell it, trade it in, or even get rid of it without paying an extra penalty to do so.
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 2:02 pm EST

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My error 620 megawatts is being generated on less than 125 acres and has been doing so for almost 40 years.
-- Posted by Name Change on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 11:49 am EST

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I was wondering what the meaning of your post was and your reference to the ISO-New England was all about.

Baseload? As I understand what you wrote, there is plenty of power as a baseload during offpeak hours that we could get by with out much of it. I do not rerad how much of it could we get by without, is it 1 megawatt? 100 megawatt? or 1000 mega watts? Withiut scale to comapre to, your reference is rather useless when you use it to justify shuting down VY and believing nothing will come of it.

520 megawatts is being generated on less than 125 acres and has been doing so for almost 30 years. The grids have grown accustomed to that power and a lot of little "Mother Earth News" self generating power plants would be needed to even put a dent in the VY loss.

Something you don't understand yet, SOTG,if you are wrong in YOUR philosphy we all pay and not just you. We already know that we made it 40 years with no major problems and no deaths and 20 more is no big deal. We know what we have, you seem to think you know so much about it that you are almost guaranteeing us, close it and there will be no change, didn't the Man from Kenya also claim something about Change?

All your fears are currently found at any of over 50,000 Coal Fired plants and not in a single Nuclear Powered Plant.

You could have a meltdown at VY and have everyone killed in a 10 mile radius and it would not come close to how many have died from coal fired power plants that don't seem to grab any attention at all. What gives, just what are your fears?
-- Posted by Name Change on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 11:47 am EST

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"If we have such a glutton of power, where is it coming from Hydro Quebec?"

Come again?
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 10:52 am EST

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SOTG

If we have such a glutton of power, where is it coming from Hydro Quebec?

You are the one who needs to get educated, VY is U.S. power and is in the competetive market that helps keep all power costs in check. Do away with a key player and you lose edge and when that happens, Hydro Quebec will charge whatever they want.

It Waste is your concern, then contract NASA to load up the shuttles and hrul it towards the Sun. End of problem and maybe we will get our sunspots back early.
-- Posted by Name Change on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 10:30 am EST

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"Go ahead, shut it down. The last person out of the state please turn the lights out, IF there's enough renewable power to light the bulb..."

C'mon, Wendy. You can do better than that. This response just seems kinda... tired. Flat. Uninspired. You're never gonna get your mug back on Fox News with yawn-inducing tripe like this. (But, heck, at least you're still here, unlike Jim "Enterwho?" Eckhardt, who jumped the sinking VY PR ship like a big, shiny, well-fed rat.)

Try again.
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 10:01 am EST

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Wooo Hoooo!!
Finally some sense coming out of Montpeculiar!!!! Good move to try and block Do Nothing Douglas's veto.
How can you people be more worried about your wallets than getting poisoned??
Wood and candles aren't that bad. We used them for hundreds of years you know.
Your all such spoiled Americans.

You Pro-VY people should move to Vernon, make some Trituim lemonade and glow in the dark.
-- Posted by Dr. Gonzo on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, 7:33 am EST

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Shumlin is a royal jerk - in the interest of maintaining a PG rating we will leave it at that although I hear he is often referred to in Montpelier as "Richard Cranium".

He tried to tax VY out of existence with his sole corporation, illegal, directed tax. Didn't work. He is so asinine and opposed to nuclear energy, largely due probably to inhaling too many Putney generated fumes, that he will do anything and everything to get himself elected Governor, and he KNOWS full well what happened in Massachusetts and that his only prayer in Vermont is to try to round up enough of the no nuker support to combat the rising Scott Brown tide in the state.
-- Posted by Allen Kuusela on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 9:57 pm EST

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Go ahead, shut it down. The last person out of the state please turn the lights out, IF there's enough renewable power to light the bulb...
-- Posted by Wendy Wilton on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 8:55 pm EST

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Interesting theory, Name Change. You're trying to claim that, with VY off-line, baseload demand in Vermont and New England will rise and prices will jack up with it.

Problem is, you're wrong. VY currently generates less than 2% of New England's total capacity. And in New England, according to ISO-New England, there's already such a glut of baseload power, that organization has recommended that certain baseload providers should actually be charged to stay connected to the grid during times of low demand.

Educate yourself, Name Change.
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 4:13 pm EST

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SOTG

VY puts 620 MEGA watts on the Power Grids. Where it all ends up is where it is needed most at the time it is needed.

Kinda like a BIG rail yard where a lot of switching takes place to get the trains on the right tracks.

Now take away 620 MEGA Watts and the grids are little more empty. When the demand raises elsewhere for more power, the power VY use to supply and VY is no longer there, what do thing will happen? Life goes on as usual? or does demand go higher than supply?

If VY is currently running at near 100% output, the power must be getting used somewhere and when you take all that power away and replace it with token dreams of Wind Farms and Cities of Solar Panels, well I think it is YOU that is a little confused and not Wayne.



Karl

You sure are a senationalist. You think in extremes.

Everything is contained at VY. In any of the video clips of VY and the leaks have you seen any of the Trained, Skilled and Educated workers wearing anything but regular clothing? I bet you are wearing your MOP gear and you live what 100 miles away?

The Feds say it is safe and if it wasn't, I have no doubt it would have been shut down.


Shumlin is testing the waters to find out how much power he has, if he is successful with VY, then stand by, the ball is rolling and gaining speed. Who or what will be next. It seems Montpelier has found plenty to do but govern. We have agencies and deptartments designed to take care of these kind of situations, if they aren't, then what have they been getting paid to do?
-- Posted by Name Change on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 2:07 pm EST

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"Chumplin is requesting this vote before the March Town Meetings so as to not take the heat from the voters."

What heat? What are you talking about? Who's voting on anything VY-related on Town Meeting Day?

If anything, anti-VY sentiment is running stronger than pro-VY in Vermont right now, so if anything, wouldn't Shumlin want to wait until AFTER Town Meeting Day so that he could use the Meeting Day protests and nasty anti-VY comments to prove his point?

Oh, and by the way: before you go blaming this on "Chumplin" and "liberals", you might want to reduce your ignorance quotient a few points by reading this:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100217/NEWS02/2170352

Yes, that's right: 30 senators and only TWO would vote to re-license: one Democrat, one Republican.

"Vermont is giving up cheap power so the Liberals can feel good."

For the ninety-seventh time: VY power is MORE EXPENSIVE THAN POWER ON THE SPOT MARKET. And that's just right now: if the plant's ever relicensed, the rates are going to go UP.

What don't you get about that? Forget about the lying ownership and the old leaking plant and the fake shell company they want to spin VY into, just for a minute... VY POWER ALREADY COSTS MORE.

"Yet their leader is financing a new plant in the South."

Excellent! Tell you what, "Jack Bauer": as soon as Entergy announces plans to build a shiny, safe new nuclear plant to completely replace VY, you'll have my full attention. OK?
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 1:33 pm EST

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S of G, if this is not crooked politics then what is? Chumplin is requesting this vote before the March Town Meetings so as to not take the heat from the voters. I would say S of G that you need your dad to change your diapers because you are full of it. People are fed up with more taxes and higher utility bills. Vermont is giving up cheap power so the Liberals can feel good. Yet their leader is financing a new plant in the South. Who's votes is he looking for?
-- Posted by Jack Bauer on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 1:01 pm EST

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Genojuice... your post is loaded with so many errors and inconsistencies, I don't even know where to start.

Let's just make this as simple as possible: a vote by the Vermont State Legislature as to whether or not Vermont Yankee is relicensed for another twenty years IS "the process", subject to a 2003 state law to which neither Douglas nor Entergy had ANY objection at the time (when they thought they'd handily win any vote for relicensing, no doubt).

Capiche?
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 11:24 am EST

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"There is not a lot of spare money left and the only solution I see is to leave."

Then leave, already! You've been whining about leaving Vermont for weeks (months?) (years?); if you really meant it, you'd be gone by now.

Nothing but empty words and hot air. No wonder you support Douglas and Entergy.
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 11:20 am EST

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Well all the crooked Vermont politicians are made of money. What do they care if the electric rates go up 30% as long as they get there names in the news.
My last electric bill was $180. No big deal, my property taxes went up 60% the cost of food has gone through the roof. There is not a lot of spare money left and the only solution I see is to leave.
-- Posted by Mark Wilson on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, 1:59 am EST

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Gee, just saw the evening news and the Messiah (BHO) was announcing the building of a new nuclear power plant in Georgia. Talking about 3500 construction jobs, 700 permanent jobs and a boost to the State's economy. He also mentioned that nuclear power is safe and reduces CO2 gases. Seems like our lame leaders need to put on their thinking caps and figure this one out. Gee I love it when a plan comes together.
-- Posted by Jack Bauer on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 7:11 pm EST

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Upfront, I support nuclear power. I think it is the answer to a majority of our electrical energy needs.

Whether you support VY or not; a move by the Senate to pass something which bypasses the Public Service Board and / or a Governor's veto IS WRONG!!!!!!!! Regardless of whether the measure is PRO or CON of VY. This is the kind of politics trying to run (ruin) healthcare. The process should be above board, with the PSB, the Governor AND the Legislature all involved in decision. If is decided that VY is to remain operational, so be it. If it is decided that VY is to be shut down, so be it. Circumventing the process MUST NOT BE ALLOWED FOR ANYTHING IN GOVERNMENT!! I cannot stress this enough. Checks and balances are in place for a reason. If this type of procedural maneuver can happen here, it can surely happen elsewhere.

Let the process work and let the chips fall where they may.
-- Posted by genojuice None on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 5:24 pm EST

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For all those who think keeping VY open for another 20 years, think again. Its a plant that was designed in the 1950's, and has been running for nearly 40 years. It now runs at 120% of its designed capacity. They, (Entergy) says that its perfectly OK to run it at this souped up rate for another 20 years. They also said that there were no under ground pipes which directly connected to the reactor. They'll say anything to get their way. All they can focus on is profits, not the truth. Now we have radioactive water pouring out of the plants reactor into the ground and they have yet to even find where the leak is.

If there were a catastrophic accident, and radioactive Cesium 137 (half life 30 years,) were to contaminate Vermont's soils, how much do you think your property would be worth? How many people would buy products made in Vermont? How many people who own second homes here would dump their properties? How many would have to abandon their homes and communities?

How likely is a catastrophic failure? We don't know. There are no 60 year old nuclear power plants in the US, or the world. Its a big experiment and guess who gets to be the Guinnea pigs? Just read about reactor vessel embrittlement some time.

Shumlin is doing the right thing. He protecting our homes and the beautiful state of Vermont. The majority of Vermonters don't trust Entergy, and the majority of Vermonters would like to see the aged plant shut down as soon as possible. The electric rates may go up, but what makes you think Entergy wasn't going to raise them anyway? They definitely were. I'd rather pay an extra $20 a month or even put a solar system on my house if I knew that we didn't have the anvil of that old nuclear dirty bomb sitting on the shores of the Connecticut river.
-- Posted by Karl Rosengrant on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 4:50 pm EST

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Interesting concepts on how democracy works, folks.

"If shumlan and his few senators vote to close yankee the entire voting population has been bypassed."

Bruce, if only a "few senators" -- or, better yet, "his" few senators (whatever that means) vote NOT to extend the plant's license for another twenty years, then Yankee WILL be relicensed... as only a "few" senators voted against the license extension.

Surely you meant to say that a MAJORITY of the Senate may vote against relicensing. Which, of course, is exactly how a representative democracy is supposed to work.

Unless you don't actually BELIEVE in democracy when it doesn't suit you. That's the problem, isn't it?

"Article title should read 'Yankees call for Shumlin Vote'"

What on Earth are you talking about, Wayne?

Are you trying to insinuate that Yankee somehow WANTS a vote this year?

Maybe you meant that the dreaded New York Yankees are somehow behind this?

Maybe... you're just a little confused. Yeah, that's probably it.

"shut it down so i can pay double for electricity"

Actually, we're now paying more for VY power than we'd get on the open market... and VY's rates are only going UP even IF the plant is relicensed.

But, hey... don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

You know, if Jim Eckhardt was still alive, we could have ourselves a really entertaining conversation on this topic...
-- Posted by Son Of That Guy on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 4:16 pm EST

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Article title should read "Yankees call for Shumlin Vote"
Aren't WE THE PEOPLE getting sick and tired of this man's political stunts?
Both He and his little puppet Shap Smith?
-- Posted by Wayne Wilbur on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 4:01 pm EST

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If shumlan and his few senators vote to close yankee the entire voting population has been bypassed.THEY SHOULD NOT have such power!...such a move will have many many different results and all are not necessarily good for all.
Voters need to remember shumlin on election day..it was just a few weeks ago he stated there was no way a vote would happen this year!
-- Posted by bruce meyer on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 3:48 pm EST

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Guess we are all just made of money.. shut it down so i can pay double for electricity.. thanks
-- Posted by Mike Jones on Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 2:13 pm EST

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